Friday, October 30, 2020

Dispute with Douglas Petrovich

Creation vs. Evolution: Babel in Eridu? · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Dispute with Douglas Petrovich · Babel or Exodus Myths? · Babel Skyscraper, Portal or Rocket? · Creation vs. Evolution: "On the Evolutionary Timescale" is NOT in my vocabulary

Where was the Tower of Babel - Dr. Douglas Petrovich
Is Genesis History? | 18.IV.2020

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Re-read Genesis 11 verse 1. FROM the East. It should be West of the landing place!

Wrote this for a fuller response:

Creation vs. Evolution : Babel in Eridu?

Douglas Petrovich
Hans, yes, the Hebrew text of 11:2 (not 11:1) does say that they ventured from the east. There is no conflict whatsoever between that and anything I said in the interview. Perhaps if you study the geography a bit more carefully, you will see that Sumer (= biblical Shinar and Akkadian Shumer) is east of the Ararat mountain range. The fact that it also is southward is viewed as insignificant to Moses, if that is your objection.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Douglas Petrovich Precisely, from the East.

Sumer is on the contrary to the East.

Plus quite a lot to the South.

That Shinar and Sumer are etymologically related do not prove they are same area any more than "Murrica" (US) and "Americas" are so.

I think you are the one who should be studying things more carefully, like the difference between "from" and "to".

You are correct on verse number, though, I gave citation from memory.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Added next day:

Murovdagh, Nagorno-Karabakh
40°16′00″N 46°19′00″E
30°48′57″N 45°59′46″E

So, if your option for landing place is in Nagorno-Karabakh, you may have a point. Murovdagh would still be "mountains of Ararat" or "of Armenia".

Still, why would Moses bother more about 19' 14" movement East to West than about a 9° 27' 03" movement North to South, about 30 times bigger than the one East to West?

Other points I raised, which he didn't answer, so far (if he does, dialogue will be inserted):

16:33 Eridu is one of seven or eight cities that are called Babel ... in South Mesopotamia?

Bc, there are several Rome, Paris, Memphis and so on in US ... and North Mesopotamia is as much Shinar (= Mesopotamia on my view) as South Mesopotamia is.

Now, in North Mesopotamia, you find a very ancient city - or temple site - much older than Eridu, with no preserved name in preserved writing. It is buried under sand. Göbekli Tepe:

  • is older than Eridu
  • is nearly due West of the landing place if Mt Chudi, and more West than anything else from Durupinar or Greater Ararat (Eridu is more like due South of these, and even a bit further East of them)
  • is where you can "find a plain" within "the land of Shinar" (taken as Mesopotamia), rather than find the land of Shinar within a plain, as in South Mesopotamia
  • has an architecture that was not signed by a building master writing a post-Babel language like Sumerian (indeed, like Jericho, has no preserved writing at all).

18:00 Ah, ok, you are saying Naram-Lin or Naram-Sin took on centuries after Nimrod ... could be.

Still, wrong place for Babel.

16:39 "around at the right time"

Not according to my tables.

"Eridu appears to be the earliest settlement in the region, founded c. 5400 BC, close to the Persian Gulf near the mouth of the Euphrates River."

5400 B. Chr. would be 2220 B. Chr. in real dates, and Babel's end / Peleg's birth was centuries earlier, 2562 B. Chr.

Late Uruk period = one post-Babel culture!

Now, your take on the level of Eridu, carbon dated or indirectly carbon dated as 5400 BC, if you take a moderately "early" carbon date for the Flood like 30 000 BP, gives,

with the chronology of Syncellus, based on standard LXX,
11.731 times present production of C14

with the chronology of Roman Martyrology, based on non-standard LXX,
15.744 times present production of C14

with the chronology of Ussher
95.211 times present production of C14

I'll add details next session. Internet time is low now.
[This promise was forgotten.]

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