A Catholic vision for society

Can 'Responsible Citizenship' turn its back on God? We discuss ARC 2025
Catholic Unscripted | 18 Febr. 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpKgZ0hXK9c

10:11 "without being Fascist"

Depends on how you define that. Without believing in Giovanni Gentile? For sure. Without seeing Il Duce (or Hercules) as the nec plus ultra of the Christian preux? For sure.

But:
a) it was Monarchist rather than Parlamentarian or Senatorial
b) it was Corporativist rather than Capitalist
c) it believed unconstitutional violence was sometimes what the common good needed (Julius Caesar, Constantine, Franco, to some degree Theodosius I).

I think Anti-Oligarchism to sometimes Anti-Parlamentarianism, Corporativism in opposition to both Capitalism and Communism, and a non-horror in principle of legitimate defense breaking the boundaries of constitution are the three hallmarks of quite a lot of movements in the 1920's and 30's. To some degree of Polish and Irish nationalism, both of which were strongly Catholic.

In one German case it was unfortunately allied to Medical dictatorship and to Bourgeois responsibility for the awkward ... I'm just trying to find out whether Pétain's régime was dishonoured in 1942 by the government Laval or already in 1941 with Alexis Carrell, I've heard him describe as eugenicist, but I recall that that word is sometimes abused about pro-natalists. Including by Academicians who would usually be thought of as welcoming distinct and precise terms.

Philea Smog

@PhileaSmog

@hglundahl. Do you mind if I quote an 1-month old commentar (oddly similar to yours) It was not unusual for good Christians to bet upon a strong man (or possibly the other way) (Emperor Constantin, King Clovis, Oliver Cromwell, Francisco Franco, Benito Mussolini, (?) Philippe Pétain ).The appeal, in the modern times, by good christians and alike, to the strong man has never, on the long run, ended very well.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

@PhileaSmog It so happens, what I am sympathising with is not "the strong man" ... even if some of those mentioned could so qualify.

I would most definitely not bet on Oliver Cromwell.

As to Dollfuss, I don't think you would accuse him of being a strong man. He happened to be the leader of a party that happened not to mind the dictatorial constitution (and neither had the original constitution minded it). He had no motive to get out of the constitution just to show he was a "strong man" ... but he had a motive to use its exception clause when lots of Social Democrats did an actually armed version of "January 6" and he only quelled their insurrection after shooting 300 to 400 of them.

His killer was a National Socialist.

His successor, Schuschnigg, was also not directing his country in a parliamentary democracy, and he was also not a strong man. He was part time supervised by orders of some doctor who pretended he was suicidal, just so Hitler's men could humiliate him 24/24.

It is assumed, time after time, if you are a Fascist, it means you admire the strong man. I quite often admire the weak man. But one of the weaknesses I can admire is not being able to manipulate a parliamentary democracy.

Lots of Fascisms "didn't end well" because they were conquered by enemies, and in Austria's and Poland's case, that enemy (or one of them) was Hitler.

I do not count Franco as a strong man. He was somewhat too hysteric about a still ongoing Spanish War after the Spanish War had already ended, and some of the things he did were a blight to his régime. But when his troops under his own direct command were cruel, that was under Alfons XIII in Morocco, and under Gil Robles in the Asturias. In the Spanish War, his own troops were among the gentler victors, while the brutalities against civilians were committed under other commands.

Are you a Swede? Or an Englishman?

Those are two nationalities where the Caesarian constitution is supposed to have as principal appeal the "admiration for the strong man" ... a thing that was Mussolini's weakness, he admired Hitler too much, but he has already paid for it. As far as I know, in Purgatory, and it's already over. No, I'm not the Mystic who said so ... but I was happy to hear about it.

One thing I do admire both Duce and Caudillo for is, the life of the unborn was holy.

@PhileaSmog To be fair, Franco actually was fairly strong as a soldier.

He was not too weak as a ruler.

20:05 "the King took responsibility of everybody"

No, but he did take responsibility for the COMMON good. And was, sometimes to an unhealthy degree, obeyed therein. Fortunately, Christianity then by and large took away this unhealthiness, but obedience was still a very strong value.

21:31 "the Nazis were just as much of the Left as of the Right"

Like that time when Adolf himself was a Leninist in Munich, in 1919. There are photos of him at the funeral of Kurt Eisner. Or footage.

A few months before he joined NSDAP ...

22:25 Catacombs. Well, back then, not everyone.

Popes were often seen outside catacombs, like Peter listening to Paul's words 2 Timothy 4:2. Hence Popes were usually shortlived. Only Peter was actually Pope longer than Michael I (who bear Pius IX by a few months). And Justin Martyr ...

23:13 Would you wildly disagree with the idea that both immigrants and homeless in big cities of other stripes could profit from an opening of ghost towns to agriculture?

24:24 What if certain Muslims were told to make their monocultural society in ghost towns, but met more pushback, including from joining police or doctors, in mixed areas?

(In Sweden and Norway, some abandoned farmland would be above the Polar Circle. This year that would mean keeping Ramadan is fairly easy ....)

26:08 You mean until the Parousia, or possibly already when Sts Henoch and Elias come back to force things a bit?

I think either of these is likely to give some resolve, and the Parousia a complete one.