Tuesday, December 18, 2018

Answering Dr. John Barnett's "7 Reasons Roman Catholicism is Wrong"

Answering Dr. John Barnett: on Catholic Oral Tradition · his "7 Reasons Roman Catholicism is Wrong" · on "Origin of the Catholic Church" or on what happened with Constantine

Answering "Asaph Vapor": Answering Asaph Vapor · Continuing the Answer to Asaph Vapor · Asaph Vapor's long answer, part I · On Papacy and Apostolic Succession to Asaph Vapor · Answering Asaph Vapor on Blessed Virgin Mary and Church · On Eucharist, Confession and some Other Matters, to Asaph Vapor

Here is a video attacking Catholicism:

7 Reasons Roman Catholicism is Wrong
DTBM OnlineVideoTraining | 1.XI.2018

Here are my answers to points raised in the video (usually with at least a minimal quote, sometimes to be deduced for those not watching video from my answer):

0:43 "crucifying Christ again for the people"

Do our books really say that?

Let's check. Jimmy Akin wrote an article on it:

Are We Re-Crucifying Jesus in the Mass? Jimmy Akin | New Catholic Register Jul. 8, 2013

The (non-Catholic and schismatic) CCC is cited, but where it cites Catechism of the Council of Trent (which is fully Catholic):

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice:

[1] The victim is one and the same:

[2] the same [Priest] now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross;

[3] only the manner of offering is different.

In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.

Another fully Catholic Catechism:

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass

The Essence, Institution and Ends of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass

1 Q. Should the Holy Eucharist be considered only as a sacrament?
A. The Holy Eucharist, besides being a sacrament, is also the permanent Sacrifice of the New Law, which Jesus Christ left to His Church to be offered to God by the hands of His priests.

2 Q. In what in general does a sacrifice consist?
A. In general a sacrifice consists in the offering of some sensible thing to God and in some way destroying it as an acknowledgment of His Supreme Dominion over us and over all things.

3 Q. What is this Sacrifice of the New Law called?
A. This Sacrifice of the New Law is called the Holy Mass.

4 Q. What, then, is the Holy Mass?
A. The Holy Mass is the Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ offered on our altars under the appearances of bread and wine, in commemoration of the Sacrifice of the Cross.

5 Q. Is the Sacrifice of the Mass the same as that of the Cross?
A. The Sacrifice of the Mass is substantially the same as that of the Cross, for the same Jesus Christ, Who offered Himself on the Cross, it is Who offers Himself by the hands of the priests, His ministers, on our altars; but as regards the way in which He is offered, the Sacrifice of the Mass differs from the Sacrifice of the Cross, though retaining the most intimate and essential relation to it.

6 Q. What difference and relation then is there between the Sacrifice of the Mass and that of the Cross?
A. Between the Sacrifice of the Mass and that of the Cross there is this difference and relation, that on the Cross Jesus Christ offered Himself by shedding His Blood and meriting for us; whereas on our altars He sacrifices Himself without the shedding of His Blood, and applies to us the fruits of His passion And death.

7 Q. What other relation has the Sacrifice of the Mass to that of the Cross?
A. Another relation of the Sacrifice of the Mass to that of the Cross is, that the Sacrifice of the Mass represents in a sensible way the shedding of the Blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross, because, in virtue of the words of consecration, only the Body of our Saviour is made present under the species of the bread and only His Blood under the species of the wine; although by natural concomitance and by the hypostatic union, the living And real Jesus Christ is present under each of the species.

8 Q. Is not the Sacrifice of the Cross the one only Sacrifice of the New Law?
A. The Sacrifice of the Cross is the one only Sacrifice of the New Law, inasmuch as through it Our Lord satisfied Divine Justice, acquired all the merits necessary to save us, and thus, on His part, fully accomplished our redemption. These merits, however, He applies to us through the means instituted by Him in His Church, among which is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

9 Q. For what ends then is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass offered?
A. The Sacrifice of the Mass is offered to God for four ends: (1) To honour Him properly, and hence it is called Latreutical; (2) To thank Him for His favours, and hence it is called Eucharistical; (3) To appease Him, make Him due satisfaction for our sins, and to help the souls in Purgatory, and hence it is called Propitiatory; (4) To obtain all the graces necessary for us, and hence it is called Impetratory.

10 Q. Who is it that offers to God the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass?
A. The first and principal Offeror of the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass is Jesus Christ, while the priest is the minister who in the Name of Jesus Christ offers the same Sacrifice to the Eternal Father.

11 Q. Who instituted the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass?
A. Jesus Christ Himself instituted the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass when He instituted the Sacrament of the Blessed Eucharist and said that this should be done in memory of His passion.

12 Q. To whom is the Holy Mass offered?
A. The Holy Mass is offered to God alone.

13 Q. If the Holy Mass is offered to God alone why are so many Masses celebrated in honour of the Blessed Virgin And the Saints?
A. Mass celebrated in honour of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints is always a sacrifice offered to God alone; it is said to be celebrated in honour of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints to thank God for the gifts He has given them, and through their intercession to obtain from Him more abundantly the graces of which we have need.

14 Q. Who shares in the fruits of the Mass?
A. The entire Church shares in the fruits of the Mass, but more particularly: (1) The priest and those who assist at Mass, the latter being united with the priest; (2) Those for whom the Mass is applied, both living and dead.

EWTN, Catechism of Pope St. Pius X

1:03 "Worst doctrine of Romanism"?

Of ALL non-Protestant Churches.

Roman Catholic - Eastern Orthodox - Copts - Armenians - Nestorians - they agree Christ sacrifices Himself in each Mass and that so the Sacrifice of Calvary is present in each Mass, none being a radically other sacrifice than it.

Denying the Mass came very late in Church history.

1:19 "my Saviour" - Our Lady indeed needed a Saviour, but got salvation at a different moment in Her life, namely the moment of conception.

Usually children are saved on day 8 after birth, when they are baptised. She was saved "nine months and eight days earlier" so to speak.

1:23 "she was a sinner that needed forgiveness"

Does not say so anywhere in the Bible. NOR in the tradition of any non-Protestant Church.

1:36 immaculately conceived means She was saved from moment one, not one moment with original sin.

If you don't believe that, you are simply NOT Roman Catholic (since 1854).

Previous to 1854, you could say She was conceived with Original Sin, then immediately prayed, and then immediately was saved - that was the other option. For Eastern Orthodox, that is still an option. Even if they are wrong in so taking it.

1:56 "Tradition over Scripture"

II Thess 3:15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.

So, we see St Paul writing that he has said things that belong to the faith once given, even if he did not write them.

Any more indications?

Luke 24:44 Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures

In a parallel text, this opening of their minds is not a one moment event, but an exposition.

However, while Catholicism does have an OT exposition relating to this, very systematically so, it does not have this in all its details from NT writings.

This means, there are two differently named items, perhaps in reality the same item, which NT writings mention as orally transmitted.

This makes Tradition a check on right Bible exegesis. Traditions on the Blessed Virgin typically turn on traditional exegesis of OT passages, including Genesis 3:15 (enmity with the serpent means no sin), Fleece of Gideon (wet where all else is dry = fruitful where all other women are unfruitful, namely as a virgin, which you do not dispute; dry when all else is wet = virgin when other women are not, that is as mother, but also, sinless when no other women are, namely from conception).

2:18 We most certainly do not ascribe to images the omniscience of God, as to the saints themselves, we ascribe God sharing a portion of His omniscience so that saints invoked can know so and intercede.

But that is a finite portion, and with any saint in heaven it is less than what Christ knows as Man in capacity of judge of all men. Even that being a finite portion.

So, where is your problem?

Oh, "omnipotent" - only one saint is omnipotent even in prayer, that is the Blessed Virgin.

Other saints can have intercessional prayers refused or modified, as also angels can Michael and Prince of Persia disputing famously on whether Israelites should have their good (getting back to Holy Land) or provide the good of Persians (by staying there and giving them access to the truth so Persians could be saved). One of these two angels was not granted his prayer.

So also, any saint except the Virgin can have a prayer refused.

As to the Virgin, what did King Solomon say to Bathseba? He went back on his word, but Christ says the same to His Mother in Heaven and does not go back on it.

3:13 There are a few saints .... lets check this week in Roman Martyrology shall we?

All mentioned, even those not feasted on day mentioned.

14 sancti Joannis a Cruce, Nicasii Episcopi, ac sororis Eutropiae Virginis, et Sociorum Martyrum; Martyrum Heronis, Arsenii, Isidori, et Dioscori pueri; Martyrum Drusi, Zosimi et Theodori. passio sanctorum Justi et Abundii, passio sanctorum Justi et Abundii, sancti Viatoris, sancti Pompeji, sancti Agnelli Abbatis, sancti Matroniani Eremita
15 Octava Conceptionis Immaculatae beatae Mariae Virginis. sanctorum Martyrum Irenaei, Antonii, Theodori, Saturnini, Victoris, et aliorum decem et septem, [=and seventeen more], passio sanctorum Faustini, Lucii, Candidi, Caeliani, Marci, Januarii et Fortunati. sancti Valeriani Episcopi, sancti Maximini Confessoris, sanctae Christianae ancillae, Ordinatio sancti Eusebii, Episcopi et Martyris (=same person feasted next day too)
16 Sancti Eusebii, Episcopi Vercellensis et Martyris; Sanctorum Trium Puerorum, id est Ananiae, Azariae et Misaelis; sanctorum Martyrum Valentini, magistri militum, ejusque filii Concordii, atque Navalis et Agricolae; sanctae Albinae, Virginis et Martyris, passio plurimarum sanctarum Virginum, beati Adonis, Episcopi et Confessoris, sancti Beani Episcopi, sancti Irenionis Episcopi
17 sancti Joannis de Matha, Presbyteri et Confessoris, beati Lazari Episcopi (yes, St Lazarus of Bethany), sanctorum Martyrum Floriani, Calanici, et Sociorum quinquaginta et octo; [=and 58 companions], sancti Sturmii, Abbatis et Saxoniae Apostoli; sanctae Wivinae Virginis, sanctae Olympiadis Viduae, beatae Beggae Viduae, Translatio. sancti Ignatii, Episcopi et Martyris; qui, tertius post beatum Petrum Apostolum, Antiochenam rexit Ecclesiam.
18 sanctorum Martyrum Rufi et Zosimi, passio sanctorum Theotimi et Basiliani, sanctorum Martyrum Quincti, Simplicii et aliorum - and others - sancti Moysetis Martyris, sanctorum Martyrum Victuri, Victoris, Victorini, Adjutoris, Quarti et aliorum triginta (and 30 others), sancti Auxentii Episcopi, sancti Gatiani Episcopi,
19 sancti Timothei Diaconi (this is not the Biblical Timothy who was a bishop), beati Nemesii Martyris, beati Nemesii Martyris, beati Nemesii Martyris; passio sanctarum Meuris et Theae. depositio sancti Anastasii Papae Primi, sancti Gregorii, Episcopi et Confessoris, sancti Adjuti Abbatis, sanctae Faustae, beati Urbani Papae Quinti,
20 Vigilia sancti Thomae Apostoli. sancti Zephyrini, Papae et Martyris, passio sancti Ignatii, Episcopi et Martyris (he was already mentioned), sanctorum Martyrum Liberati et Bajuli. sanctorum Martyrum Eugenii et Macarii Presbyterorum, sanctorum militum et Martyrum Ammonis, Zenonis, Ptolomaei, Ingenis et Theophili; sancti Julii Martyris. sancti Philogonii Episcopi, una cum sancto Alexandro Episcopo et Sociis, sancti Dominici, Episcopi et Confessoris. depositio sancti Dominici de Sylos Abbatis (both these St Dominic are NOT "THE St Dominic")

But do you know one thing more?

Et alibi aliorum plurimorum sanctorum Martyrum et Confessorum, atque sanctarum Virginum. R. Deo gratias.

And elsewhere many other holy martyrs and confessors and holy virgins - thank God.

Multiply this by 52, since there are 52 weeks in a year.

THEN add that while it may indeed take a saint more than a century to get canonised, there are usually no single years in which saints are not being canonised.

THEN add that canonisation is not a posthumous sacrement to get someone out of purgatory, it's a posthumous declaration someone never went there in the first place.

"everybody else"

Everybody except the actual saints - yes.

Everybody except the canonised saints (who are just a portion of the actual ones) - no. Big difference. You don't need to have a canonisation to escape purgatory.

And no, purgatory does NOT negate one sacrifice on Calvary, that is calumny.

Everyone who makes it to Heaven, directly or via Purgatory, does so for the merits of Christ on Calvary.

The Blessed Virgin, free from all sin, both original and personal, was also so freed because of same merits - applied in advance.

Also, the saints who make it to Heaven without purgatory are getting to Heaven through the sacraments.

St Maria Goretti was martyred after receiving baptism as a small child, then confirmation and then five times Communion, not sure how many confessions, but not many.

It was through these sacraments Christ gave her the grace to prefer martyrdom to sin, and to offer up her martyrdom for the salvation of her killer. This event happened in 1902, and her repenting killer died after a holy life after prison, in 1968, the year when I was born. So much for comparing sacraments to "IV-drip".

If Roman Catholic teaching on Purgatory is a "terrible falsehood" what teaching on Purgatory is correct?

Purgatory is Biblical : II Maccabees 12, Tobit 4, and I Cor 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames.

It is previously mentioned this applies to those who have built on the right foundation, in case you were trying to consider flames as those of damnation and "saved" as denying thnetopsychism rather than as affirming salvation.

One more, if you die a small child but baptised, or if you die after baptism as having trisomy 21 and some similar conditions, you are guaranteed Heaven. If you die early enough, you will have no personal sins even venial ones after baptism and so you will not even go through purgatory.

Your "finally" gets the subtitles garbled.

"most of Roman Catholicism z'right are tide change and paganism"

I don't know what you said that subtitling got as "tide change", but paganism is clear enough and you were not speaking of "right" but of "rite".

Well, no.

Hislop's The Two Babylons was published in 1853, before there was any accurate extra-Biblical knowledge of Babylon to speak of.

In other words, you are perpetuating a lie, where original liar could have been just ignorant (but chose to include guess work and loose parallels), but you have an opportunity to get rid of such ignorance.

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