Tuesday, May 2, 2017

... a Harsher and a Gentler Correction of John Lennox

Here is the one which sounded harsh to me:

Debunking John Lennox's YEC Arguments (Justin Derby)

Here, in my comments on this video, I have tried to make it gentler:

4:38 a Jew might of course say that the Earth was dark and void for millions of years, a Christian must abide by Mark 10:6.

4:52 Actually he is, so far, not directly arguing Gap Theory. You see, he is just saying the time when the Earth was empty and void comes before day 1. Interesting to consider how an Earth would look after millions of years of darkness, and of emptiness and only the last less than ten thousand years there was light and life.

5:59 One could ask whether "heavens" of Exodus 20 = "heaven" of Genesis 1:1 or the work of Day IV. Otherwise, of course, what preceded creation of light on earth would count as part of day I. I had been wondering whether the day in heaven (heaven with all angels can't have been dark just because Earth was) was a Saturday counting as before this day I Sunday, or whether it was a same day which spread down to Earth some later when God said "let there be light".

8:10 Beg to differ. A Catholic takes the Bible:

AND Anagogically.

But metaphors in sentence are part of literal sense of passages, of the story. Taking the metaphors literally is not.

8:41 We Catholics let the Magisterium do the Interpretation for us, but Magisterium has ruled we must take the Bible according to unanimous sense of Fathers, who are all taking Creation week literally. Possibly Saint Jerome might have argued there was a very long spiritual day in the spiritual heaven among the angels before Creation of Earth and its original darkness and day 1 of visible light. But that could not be why there are material traces from what we take as traces of the Flood, can it?

9:45 It is indeed possible that day 1 was not 24 hours, but fewer. Like if light was created with light angle of noon rather than of morning? Would not really matter, would it?

I did some thinking since last. John Lennox has a real point that we do not know how long Earth was empty and void and covered in darkness. One could say Universe was created Saturday evening 18:00 and light was created Sunday morning 6:00. One could also say Universe was created Sunday morning 6:00 and light was created Sunday morning 9:00. But as per Exodus 20, you cannot go many hours further back than Saturday evening 18:00, six*24 hours before God rests from creating new things on Friday evening 18:00.

10:46 Actually, St Augustine argued both diverse numeration of days and "evening-morning" can be explained as angels apprehending creation - which they do very quickly. According to him, God created the universe in one instant, the angels saw this divided into six instants according to aspects, and their "evening" sight means them seeing it by their own powers of apprehension, all of them, their "morning" sight being them seeing it again when looking up to God to give thanks - as Michael did and Satan didn't. Obviously, this view is a bit problematic on details of day 6, and it also is no use to Old Earth : it just makes any Young Earth chronology six or five days shorter. Also, like St Jerome's opinion, it is that of a single Church Father, not that of All Church Fathers - therefore a guess, not a dogma.

12:58 I was waiting whether you were going to deal with the argument of Distant Starlight, which he faced (with some trembling) ... and you gave no answer. A Young Earth Creationist should give an answer. Mine is, since Earth isn't spinning around the Sun, "parallax" is a misnomer for the 1838 Bessel phenomenon, and that not being parallactic involves no triangle useful for triangulation of stellar distances. Hence "Distant" starlight is as little distant as "Millions of Years" are millions of years.

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