Wednesday, May 11, 2022

I'm Not Putting Feminism over Islam, and David Wood is Right on Some, Not on All

That's one reason I disagree with David Wood, while also not believing Islam is the right religion (I don't think Protestantism is it either, by the way).

Without Lies, Islam . . .
29th April 2022 | Acts17Apologetics

That the Blessed Virgin Mary was anything from 12 to 16 is more probable than Her being over 18.

St. Joseph would have been a widower, though 90 is less likely than 45 - 60 or sth - he was still active in the flight to Egypt, but was arguably dead before Christ started His Public ministry.

Also, as all four women in the OT who individually are explicitly named "blessed" are types of the Blessed Virgin : the two "among women" were so for defeating an enemy of Israel, She defeated Satan (already, and once more with Her Son); Abigail stopped King David from killing and Israelite and She stops Christ from rejecting unworthy Christians from their repentance, and Ruth married an old man (the closer relative of her husband would have been younger, more of an age peer), and She ... well, it seems St. Joseph would be an old man.


Leo M
Why on earth the permittable age of marriage is still discussed in xxi century. Is like people denied all sciencntifal advance made by humanity for last 1000 years.
On the other side we have still people who believe in flat earth.
Back when I was in school that would something next to silly joke.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
There is actually no scientific advance at all involved in the change of the permittable age for marriage.

Muslims go to the extreme low end of the well known puberty spectrum that was well known 1000 years ago : 9 years.
Modern feminists go to the xtreme high end : 18 years.

Catholics traditionally go to the mid point : 14 for men, 12 for women.

Jeff Wii
Thats the wonder of Islam.. make everything backward again

Leo M
@Hans-Georg Lundahl well, I know that some people discredit all psychological knowledge but you can not really discredit the knowledge on human development.
Developmental studies show clearly that 6, 9 and 12 years old are far from being ready to undertake the responsibilities that goes with marriage and surly are not ready to start the action activities. I would say 18 years old are still not ready and would discurrage so early marriage.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Leo M That is not a progress in the knowledge of development, it's a shift in the assessment of what it means to be ready and also what the responsabilities are.

It's ideology.

History disagrees.

I'd as likely ask you to consider the progress in astrology and pretend Virgos should marry late (some people knowing myself to be one seem to have wanted to delay my marriage, so they are presumably astrologers).

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jeff Wii I'm fairly fine with being "backward again" and think you are unjustly flattering Islam.

Some of the things you'd call progress, like policing and psychiatry come from the Islamic culture. You may not realise that from Quran or Hadiths, but look up Harun ar Rashid in Arabian Nights, or the Cairo stories about a former thief gone police detective.

Top Ten Myths Muslims Believe about Islam
30th Jan 2021 | Acts17Apologetics

1:17 That the Sun goes around the Earth is true. Joshua 10:12. If it wasn't usually the Sun and Moon that moved, but Earth turning around itself, this would be the only instance that a Miracle Worker in all of the Bible told another entity than the one supposed to miraculously change behaviour what to do. Also, in Malachy (I think it was, or perhaps Habacuc*) it says they stood still "in their orbits" and not that they stood still as seen from our perspective.

Unlike Magellan for Earth being round, there is no proof for Heliocentrism. THE top argument from such minded scientists to the non-specialists would arguably have been telling them to discount their immediate vision of things, since to Martians or Selenians or Jovians, Mars, Moon, Jupiter would seem the centre of the Earth. Never mind we haven't found any Martians, Selenians or Jovians. That was how Kepler argued in his "Dream" and how Euler argued to tell a Prussian princess (apart from appealing to specialist status of Newton). And as I spent more of my childhood before puberty in Germany and Austria than in Sweden, I also heard that argument in Austria. As a child.

And you had better believe me, I have made a comment on the top six reasons** for earth turning around itself and one on the top six for its orbitting the sun, I have answered more about heliocentrism than you are here answering about Islam. Some of these arguments would make real good sense if there were no God, but that's about it.

That the Heavens would fall down on Earth, if taken as a literal roof, is arguably nonsense, but some things would fall flat without God upholding them. 22:65 is understating it : they would fall, not to Earth, but into nothingness.

* Habacuc 3:11, in fact
** in response to Frédéric Chaberlo:

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : Fr. Chaberlot sur le paradigme héliocentrique - avec mes critiques

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica : La cosmologie moderne, repose-t-elle sur spéculation non vérifiée ou non?

Each of them is involved in a series that features "history of science" and involves observations on "discoveries" in the Galileo sense, as they were made.

3:16 I recall a few Muslims sitting around a prison table, they had more and more monopolised my company and one of them stated "Muhammed was like the son of God" - and myself getting in trouble for contesting this and stating who really IS not just "a" (an adopted) but THE Son of God, namely Jesus, and thereon stating what I believed and believe about the Quran. Namely, first instance, it's not being the word of God, and second instance, stating whom I believed instead had talked to Mohammed.

So, are you depicting me as an Islamiser?

4:02 Was Mohammed swearing false here?

4:53 Mohammed did something else to black African slaves too. Europeans usually didn't.

Afro-Americans have typically often African Y-chromosomes. Afro-Iraqis have typically often Iraqi Y chromosomes.

7:36 On this one, the Quran could be defended.

1) Earth, dust, mud = creation of Adam's body
2) water, blood clot, small seed = creation of bodies after that
3) nothing = creation of souls.

While this doesn't make the Quran inspired by God, it is on this one basically citing Jewish and Christian sources without absurdity.

The context for "nothing" being the individual man, and what he recalls, it is apt that the individual memory confirms the soul was created from nothing.

9:30 It is also formulated in such a way that it can be taken to mean not just a ban on "apostatising" from Islam, but on any conversion except the one to Islam.

As I have converted from more or less Evangelical Church Hopper to Lutheran and from Lutheran to Catholic and since then have been a few years (late 2006 to Pentecost 2009) among the Orthodox and then back to Catholic, there would be people who would be targetting me for that reason, if they take 4067 of your source that way.

And as it is not quite safe to make me directly a martyr in the West, giving me an "excuse" as mental patient is also a way of such targetting. Unfortunately, more than one non-Muslim seems to have been somewhat happy to extend me such excuses for similar reasons ... Jews for calling Mary Mother of God and for preferring Catholicism as a Christian confession (when I have some Jewish ancestry), Protestants for thinking there is no ban on bowing down to images (separate from the ban on strange gods, and hence concerned with images of idolatrous religions, it's not the image that makes a religion idolatrous, see a man on Quora called David Chord), Evolution believers for my being YEC and Geocentric, Modernist "Catholics" for thinking I am Catholic while being YEC and Geocentric (hint : I converted in 1988, the openly pro-modern-science "Catechism of the Catholic Church" was not an object for my promise to believe what the Church teaches, it only came in 1992, when I had already concluded Modernists weren't really Catholics) ... possibly one or two Orthodox too, for reasons both of their Modernism and their anti-Catholic prejudices.

10:22 Actually, the NT claims to submit to Jesus, you need to submit to His Church.
Mohammed is about as credible as Joseph Smith and a lot more credible than Luther, when it comes to this. And obviously none of these three really is credible. Catholicism is.

Matthew 18:17 says individuals need to submit to the judgement of the Church and II Tim 4:15 shows an individual excommunication.
Matthew 28:19 says nations need to do that too as is confirmed by Apocalypse 2:27, 12:5 and 19:15, which is a nice parallel to Psalm 2:9 showing Christ is Son of The Lord. The parallel between Apoc passages to Mt 28 is most directly to verse 18 the words "and in earth" or "and on earth", making verse 19 a proof Christ delegates His powers at least to some degree to His Church.

11:26 "Allah's speech ... is also eternal"

Question between two great religions - was the Word made Flesh - or Paper?

While the idea of the Muslims is garbled, it is an echo of Christian truth.

The question between Catholics and Protestants is similar - did Christ delegate Flesh or Paper to represent Him while His visible presence is up in Heaven and not down here?

There are Calvinists who refer to the Bible as "the paper Pope".

11:43 "in addition to the eternal Quran, Allah's spirit is eternal"

By now they have echoed all of the Blessed Trinity.

And, like Islam, Mormonism also rejected the Three in One, and reduce the Three Persons to simply Three and is also therefore Polytheistic.

13:02 I can't state for sure Feminism isn't worse than Islam.

Just to mention one point : abortion.

14:25 sth There is actually one more place than Fantasy Land where Islam has improved the status of women.

A bit like Catholics and Anglicans too. The Indian subcontinent. But perhaps that is what you meant by Fantasy Land, so much being clearly Disney Land in that area.

There are Hindoo "saints" who count as "saints" for being "martyred" for burning widows. That murder would have met death penalty under Portugal as much as under Muslim majority populations - for instance in Pakistan.

I'm not sure whether English possessions hung or just imprisoned widow burners.

15:41 Now you are attacking Christianity.

2.9 children per woman = "very low view", average of non-Muslims is 2.2, Christians are at 2.6, a Feminist would say this proves, Christians have the second lowest view of women, as they have the second highest fertility. So, a high view of women would involve low fertility, and you get that in China and India where abortion is allowed and female foeti are selectively aborted, but if a woman isn't aborted, hey, at least she enjoys a high view, since a low fertility.

While David Wood, having concentrated fairly much on apologetics against Islam, is knowledgdeable on much, far more than I, not having converted to Catholicism, he doesn't notice when he's really attacking Islam for being right, for agreeing with Catholicism. Like appreciating a high fertility in married women.

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