Monday, April 1, 2024

Gary Bates' Egyptian Matches Bungle the Carbon Rise

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Gary Bates' Egyptian Matches Bungle the Carbon Rise · Creation vs. Evolution: Egyptian Chronology Calibrated · Augustine and Origen each give us "two birds with one stone" · Carbon 14 and Egyptian Chronology, a Reply to Gary Bates

David Down did a better job:

CMI : Searching for Moses
by David Down | This article is from
Journal of Creation 15(1):53–57, April 2001

But now to Gary Bates:

Does Egyptian History Fit with the Bible?
Creation Ministries International | 27 March 2024

"But when he was writing about the beginnings of ancient Egypt, in fact he was closer 7:20 to the moon landings than he was to the beginnings of ancient Egyptian history."

Egyptian or Biblical chronology?

Although no sources for the dates of his life and death remain, Manetho is associated with the reign of Ptolemy I Soter (323–283 BC) by Plutarch (c. 46–120 AD), while George Syncellus links Manetho directly with Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–246 BC).

1971 + 266 = 2237 years.
1935 (carbon dated 3500) - 266 = 1669 years

Perhaps you meant further into the predynastic period, but I take it Abraham interacted with Narmer in what's carbon dated to roughly 3500 BC, and then the tomb of his successor, Hor-Aha, is carbon dated to 3100 BC. Narmer's grave isn't there.

The carbon date for Genesis 14 is indirectly provided by Osgood as 3500 BC, since he links En-Geddi's Chalcolithic population to this chapter.

9:53 Egyptians like any other Gentiles started out after Babel still recognising the true God.

The knowledge of the right religion can be sth which disappeared slower in the Pharaos than in the Khemetist priesthood.

Perhaps a reason to have Joseph = Imhotep and his pharao = Djoser. Djoser need not yet have forgotten about the true God, as Abraham's pharao pretty certainly hadn't.

10:23 If we have Joseph's pharao a Hyksos, the carbon 14 doesn't add up.

"Avalos subscribes to the conventional view that Jericho was destroyed in 1550 BC, and that it lay abandoned in the time of Joshua (c. 1406 BC using the early Exodus date, or something like 1230 BC using the late Exodus date). He correctly says that the Patterns of Evidence film suggests shifting Egyptian chronology to produce a better alignment here. But there is another possibility—the destruction of Jericho has been misdated because of flawed argumentation. Our article The walls of Jericho explains why Jericho’s destruction should be dated to c. 1400 BC after all, without requiring a radical shift in mainstream chronology back to this point in time. The conventional date is in serious error mainly due to the faulty carbon-14 dating of the site and the uncritical acceptance of Kathleen Kenyon’s pottery analysis, which has since been shown to be mistaken."

(from Exodus evidence revisited, feedback 2022, answer to Tim L.)

1446 + 430 = 1876 (at the promise, 430 years prior to Exodus).
1550 - 1406 = 144 extra years at the taking of Jericho.

So, 1876 = carbon dated 3500.
1624 extra years = 82.164
1406 = carbon dated 1550.
144 extra years = 98.273 pmC

In 470 years, the remainder of original content is 94.473 % and normal replacement is 5.527 pmC points.

82.164 * 94.473 / 100 = 77.623
98.273 - 77.623 = 20.65 actually added carbon 14 in pmC points.

20.65 / 5.527 = 3.736 times as fast.

Jacob going to Egypt would be in 215 after the promise, i e in 1661.

What would the C14 level be then?

215 years is 97.433 % and 2.567 pmC replacement.

82.164 * 97.433 / 100 = 80.055 pmC
80.055 + (2.567 * 3.736) = 89.646 pmC

89.646 pmC => 900 extra years.

1661 + 900 = 2561 BC. That carbon date is well before the Hyksos. It's actually not too far from Djoser.

11:04 The pharao is obviously more pragmatic than his countrymen.

Or he gives them Goshen specifically to isolate them from Egyptians, with a mixture of gratitude and distance taking.

Again, no proof the pharao was of Hyksos stock, and I'd like to repeat, you can't have carbon dates as standard from Genesis 12 onward, expecting Abraham in 1876 BC (your Ussher chronology) to have a pharao archaeologically carbon dated as close to 1900 -- 1850 BC, and at the same time expect highly inflated carbon dates up to Genesis 11.

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