An Overused Quote from St. Augustine

It's not just overused actually, but under-understood. And it is in the English version given by Tim Nicolls mistranslated in a way that doesn't really help the cause of correct understanding. But first the video that we both commented under.

Geocentrism vs. Heliocentrism: a Catholic perspective
austinjosephpro | 8 Dec. 2010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk3b_jchX8Q

Tim Nicolls

@timnicolls2041

Consider adding this quotation from St. Augustine of Hippo:

Augustine, The Literal Meaning of Genesis, I:19. There is knowledge to be had, after all, about the earth, about the sky, about the other elements of this world, about the movements and revolutions or even the magnitude and distances of the constellations, about the predictable eclipses of moon and sun, about the cycles of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, fruits, stones and everything else of this kind. And it frequently happens that even non-Christians will have knowledge of this sort in a way that they can substantiate with scientific arguments or experiments. (*) Now it is quite disgraceful and disastrous, something to be on one’s guard against at all costs, that they should ever hear Christians spouting what they claim our Christian literature has to say on these topics, and talking such nonsense that they can scarcely contain their laughter when they see them to be toto caelo, as the saying goes, wide of the mark. And what is so vexing is not that misguided people should be laughed at, as that our authors should be assumed by outsiders to have held such views and, to the great detriment of those about whose salvation we are so concerned, should be written off and consigned to the waste paper basket as so many ignoramuses.

(*)

Tim gave the quote in four parts, probably texting from a phone, and I commented under the second part, after the words after which the asterisk was placed. But as the previous part was divided, I had to add another part as I copied the whole quote.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

"the predictable eclipses of moon and sun, about the cycles of years and seasons"

Sounds most apt.(**)

"will have knowledge of this sort in a way that they can substantiate with scientific arguments or experiments."

I think the actual quote was "with reason and experience" or "from ..."

Now, predictable eclipses, cycles etc were well known and well observed by Geocentrics.

In other words, the clincher for St. Augustine was things that are common ground to both sides here.

I missed this:

"or even the magnitude and distances of the constellations"

St. Augustine wasn't speaking of light years, but of angles along the zodiac.

Also common ground between both sides.

(**)

If I had instead chosen "about the nature of animals" it would probably have been a question of whether rabbits are true ruminants. No, they "chew the cud" but in a very different way from true ruminants.