Tuesday, September 20, 2022

Bodie Hodge on Babel, Me Commenting

Tower of Babel
1st of March 2019 | Answers VBS

0:20 Mr Bodie Hodge!

I suppose you will mainly get into the effects of Babel. I would not expect too many differences between us there.

However, I'd like to ask (in case you don't adress it in the video, or if you'd like to include a time signature in a short answer) - where do you put Babel in time and space, archaeologically?

1) lost before the Upper or even all Palaeolithic?
2) found by Doug Petrovich in early stages of a ziggurat near Ur?
3) sometime in between, perhaps also found?

I'd go with three.

The Flood precedes the Upper Palaeolithic, it merges into Mesolithic around the death of Noah 350 years later, when it's at least in Göbekli Tepe with surroundings replaced by Neolithic, and when Göbekli Tepe is covered in sand, it's because the language split made cooperation impossible, near the birth of Peleg 401 after the Flood.

Göbekli Tepe fits the geographic direction, West of the landing place, the geographic locale, a plain found inside the space between Euphrates and Tigris, and the archaeologic time between Flood ("39 000 BP" for 2957 BC) and Abraham in defense of Sodom ("3500 BC" for 1938 BC), so, if there is something it doesn't fit, say. And before you bring up "Babel" = "Babylon" in Hebrew, have you noted that US has a Boston that has a similar name to a place in UK?

3:16 Ah, I hadn't thought of that when accepting the Bible (thanks to ma)! It means I am related to Mr. Hodge!

4:22 It would be one difference here.

I think people in general went different places directly after the Flood.

As for "they" who said to each other "before we be scattered abroad into all lands" - that "they" doesn't necessarily mean "all the earth" and here is a grammatical reason.

All the earth is feminine singular. They is for translating a verb in third person masculine plural, not third person feminine singular.

In English, if the subject had remained the same after "all the earth" we would expect somewhat "it" in the next sentence - but in English, that would not make sense, to refer to speakers in neutre.

However, Hebrew doesn't have neutre. At a limit, in order to get a meaning of "each other" rather than "itself, himself, herself" you'd need plural, so that blows the full on feminine singular congruence anyway, but you don't have that problem with the first verb in verse 2.

So, when all the earth has one language, that means the descendants of Noah already spread out.

But who then does not want to be scattered? I'd say a global élite. Like the kind of people who enjoy meeting up in New York or Paris these days. Or even City of London, unless they are too much against monarchy. If "they" refers to a subset of humanity, the different skin colours, nose shapes, hair textures, eye angles, lip thicknesses, and so on started diversifying already after the Flood and before Babel. Or perhaps it only started showing after Babel - I have seen somewhere that modern races emerge as recently as "6000 BC" which to my calibration means at more recent than 2556 BC. I look it up, that would be around 2287 B. Chr. - more than two, less than three centuries before Abraham was born in 2015 BC.

6:02 Lebensborn was also about supporting unborn mothers.

Pushing unwed teens and SS-officers into using that seems to have been an abuse fairly prevalent from time to time, but at least better than abortion (provided mother was "Aryan" and child not handicapped).

Btw, blonde and blue eyed are parts of the Nordic type, and the German race types were five different ones, including Dinaric. Nicolas Tezla doesn't strike me as blonde or blue eyed, but he was German (if he hadn't been Serbian) as far as race was concerned.

Unborn mothers, meant unwed, of course.

6:11 Forced sterilisation is a horrible evil whether the purpose is a "master race" or avoiding certain diseases, real or presumed such.

In Sweden Lapps and Gipsies were sterilised forcefully if living the ancestral lifestyles, since vagrancy was seen as a mental deficiency.

Unlike Hitler's version, it didn't end in 1945, but continued to the 70's.

The detail of married people being forced to participate in adultery is one I missed.

Either way, all of these evils, including the abuses of Lebensborn, were absent from Austrofascism. That's not revisionism, it's just a historic fact.

And they were also so for a long time in Italian Fascism.

28:12 "all of the features of Neanderthals are with the human population even today"

Actually only 33 % sth of their genome is preserved - and usually not adding up in any individual to more than c. 2 %

Their mitochondriae, their Y-Chromosomes and the phenotype of bell shaped thorax are missing.

32:17 I'd disagree here.

Nebuchadnezzar may have thought that old ziggurat was the one they tried to build back then, but it wasn't.

He may also have lost track of history when it comes to getting as far back as that.

THOUGH in Ur (Woolley's Ur, not Urfa in Turkey near Syrian border) they have found a small scale model which to Graham Hancock looks as if it was of Göbekli Tepe (which actually is near Urfa).

33:34 Arguably Heber and Peleg both kept the pre-Babel language, as they were shirkers from Nimrod's project.

That's how St. Augustine views it, anyway!

34:13 Just before you compliment (or tease) your wife, let me guess : you are from Tennessee?

[34:40] In modern Swedish spelling the Old English would be spelled:

Fädder ore dho dhe ärt ån hövånom (adding dh, which was disused in Swedish during the 17th C.)
Or a bit older pronunciation of same Old English spelling:
Fädder ore dho dhe äart ån heövånom.

To compare, the modern English would be spelled:
Auer fadher ho art in hävven.

I would say Old English looks far more Dutch than German.

34:19 Austrian is not classed as an own Germanic language, it is classed as a dialect of the Bavarian dialect group of German, which is a Germanic language.

35:01 High German is what is usually called German. Low German comes in two versions, namely Dutch and Plattdeutsch. In Amsterdam Low German is Dutch, in Berlin it is Plattdeutsch. Both differ from High German consonants basically the same way (with English alignining more or less on Low German, not quite, it keeps the thorn sound which is D in both Low and High German), but differ between them mainly in the vowels.

High German : das Haus
Berliner Platt : dat Haus
Dutch : het huis
English : the house, Old English had "that" where modern English has "the."

THEN Skandinavian languages are also Germanic:

Swedish, Danish, Norwegian Bokmål : huset (differences of pronunciation)
Icelandic, Faroese : húsið.

36:15 And obviously, the idea of language evolving from brute communications still is as mysterious and uncharted as abiogenesis.

One big reason to reject evolution right away, whether the human language be one, on the Ark, or many, from Babel to present.

36:34 In English, I'd go with Bad-bell, minus one d and one L.

In Swedish I say Bahbel.

I never say Beybel.

37:11 That said, Spanish theologians who defended the unity of the human kind against a first onset of racism when Conquistadors saw child sacrifice, were into this scenario:
  • Americas were peopled from Old World, via Atlantis.
  • then Atlantis sank, as Plato said. And crossing the AtlantiC now one wide Ocean, was suddenly harder.

Australia was arguably peopled when Sahul Sunda was very much less wide as a straight. Under the ice age.

38:42 Would you mind giving a link to the Olmec-West African connexion, and who discovered it?

51:09 By now, I can note, the diagram putting the tower in Iraq is wrong in that. Genesis 11:2 wants a Babel West of the landing place, not South of it.

52:23 One cause three effects.

More cosmic radiation.

1) The most physically traceable effect : the C14 levels went up by a 10 times quicker production of the isotope between Flood and end of Babel.
2) The most historically known one : ages went down because that radiation damaged the genome.
Other damage of genome is apparent when Fu Hsi in China (pre-Babel) and Kekrops in Athens (post-Babel) both seem born with the Siren syndrome.
3) And cosmic radiation is ionising radiation, means colder weather - this speeded up the Ice Age.

58:17 Not just a mild judgment, it was a judgement harsher on tyrants like Nimrod and indeed a boon for his erstwhile victims.

Think if you had had a harsh as Hell boss (I hadn't ever, but I have other bad experiences with Employers) and suddenly you don't have a common language anymore, he can't boss you about anymore.

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