Monday, July 10, 2023

Tim Ballard had real wise things to say, but at near forty minutes, Jordan Peterson became pseudo-wise

The Fight Against Worldwide Child Slavery & the Sex Trade | Jim Caviezel and Tim Ballard | EP 372
Jordan B Peterson, 3 July 2023

38:49 I would advise you to read the Haydock and the Calvin commentary on Genesis 4:7.

They are very different.

39:02 "taking responsibility for his failure"

A phrase that recurs pretty often in modern psychology. Not one actually found in the text, or in Haydock.

Why were Cain and Abel making sacrifice at the same time?

Were they asking God to decide a dispute?

Manichaeans pretend that Cain should have dominion, not over sin, but over his brother. Calvin gives a similar turn.

But Catholics don't say so, St. Augustine clearly says the opposite, as quoted in Haydock.

So, what if the problem was, Cain was trying to take responsibility for his brother, while Abel finding this oppressive found it necessary to appeal to God?

In that case, God's reaction to the sacrifices was exactly to say "no, Cain, thou shalt not rule over thy brother" - which would make Cain's comment "am I my brother's keeper?" a kind of twisted ironic demand of God if He had changed His mind.

We do not know for a fact that Cain was not what the Greeks would call spoudaios up to the sacrifice. It's more arguable, he was. He was a very serious a very committed person, who was wounded about one of his commitments, that of protecting his brother, against himself, even. You don't become a city founding king (which Cain became) by being a lazy slob or irresponsible. You become that by being energetic, doing every thing imaginable in your power not to fail.

When we speak of Cain in this context, Cain as initial responsible "keeper of his brother" gained a victory 100 years ago, when 15 to 16 year olds were banned from marrying in many states. And this obviously makes for sexual drives being frustrated, and frustrated teens getting driven into the hands of ... well, one of the kind of people this video is about.

Looking at the subtitles on what comes next in your words, nope, Cain never charges God with creating the wrong kind of cosmos.

If he charges God with anything, it's rather "but I thought you said, I wasn't his keeper?"

Some people have a great desire to protect, and cannot get over not being the guy who gets to protect someone they think needs protection.

I have in my life been confronted with some homosexuals who seemed desirous of my butt, and some responsible people who seem desirous to protect me from myself. Guess which one of them I find the worse "adhesive plaster"? Yes, exactly, the one who doesn't see anything immediately sexually shameful in what he's actually asking of me. To me, they are what the Beowulf poet called "Caines cynne" - the kin of Cain.

39:24 Abel perhaps actually got everything he wanted.

First, when God released him from having Cain as his keeper. At the sacrifices.

Second, when Cain made sure he would never bother Abel again that way, despite his propensity for being the responsible guy. You can't boss someone around any more if you've already killed him.

But the only way on which Cain could have said to God anything like "Abel gets everything he wants" was by the actual words "am I my brother's keeper?" ... i e, on my view, confusing the release from the duty of positive responsibilities about his brother (actions taken to prevent him from getting into trouble) with a release from the negative duty of not murdering.

39:40 God to Cain: If thou do well, shalt thou not receive?
Jordan Peterson : if you were a bit energetic like your brother ... a bit generous like your brother
Hans Georg Lundahl : if you could gracefully take being kind to your brother without being his "keeper" as he's ougrown it long ago, and you didn't notice.

Neither of them was materially ill off.
Cain was certainly not complaining his crops were failing, since he had crops in superfluity to sacrifice from.

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