Wednesday, April 12, 2023

Dialogue Under Alice Cappelle's Video

Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Alice Cappelle Has a Point · New blog on the kid: I Think a Solution is Possible · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Dialogue Under Alice Cappelle's Video · back to New blog on the kid: Do The French Work Too Little? No. Not for Others · back to Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: Welsh Viking on Medieval Peasants — He's Occasionally Inaccurate or Off

I'm German, and while hating France is a national sport here, we had the exact same Situation years ago and did NOTHING. People whined, people complained, but God forbid you start protesting! Thats just a big no!

So, yeah, keep protesting, it won't get better on its own.

Same here. My pension age will be around 70 now, if (as I half jokingly, but crying inside, say) I won't have to work until I'm dead.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jantine Give birth to people, let your children provide for you!

The channel With The Spookiest Ghost Sounds
I don't hate the French. I just meet a French guy, and I think the French guy is gay, I meet a French woman, and I think she's bisexual. There's nothing wrong with being the former and the latter.

Sam Facultad
@The channel With The Spookiest Ghost Sounds a bit prejudice

@Hans-Georg Lundahl As our housing minister said to a young woman who couldn't find a place to live: "Did you think of getting a rich boyfriend?"
- I hope you were joking btw, not kind of serious like he was. Because hell that would be inappropriate.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jantine I did not speak of a RICH boyfriend.

I spoke of children who could get a job BEFORE you are 70.

You know, if you find the image that comes to your mind when that guy said "a rich boyfriend" very annoying, that's understandable.

If you find the kind of people that could come out of YOU and which would be raised by YOU, YOURSELF, equally annoying, then you are seriously part of the problem - a more widespread one than people earning 229.5 or 225.9 billion dollars a year.

H m m m m m

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Oh my god, you are serious ... You seriously think that people should get children just to take care of them when they're old ...
Yes, that is very rude and inappropriate to say. Not as much annoying as totally gross.

[originally "totally yuck" changed to "totally gross" - she assumed I hadn't understood the word]

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jantine "You seriously think that people should get children just to take care of them when they're old"

Just (in the sense of only) is, as CSL remarked, a dangerous word.

No, equally get old to take care of their children, i e one's own grandchildren ...

And I also think, if this had happened much more in the last five to ten decades, the pensions would not be threatened by deficit.

So, that is "totally yuck" to you?

You are free to block me or try to explain your position.

@Hans-Georg Lundahl Yes. It is gross for a guy to tell women 'well, just make (more) babies then!'

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jantine I wasn't telling that to "women" but to "couples" - which includes guys.

As far as I know women by themselves alone are incapable of making babies.

@Hans-Georg Lundahl
it would be ironic justice if you have/had children with the explicit/sole expectation that you chose to create them just so they will provide for YOU, rather than from a genuine desire to provide as much love and support for THEM as you reasonably can because they are living beings and not a means of production -- so you get to find out that your wish for a provider you can emotionally guilt is far from enough to make a generation want to financially or even emotionally take care of a previous one....guess that's easier for you to do than, you know, changing a self-destructive economic & governing system that we can clearly see isn't humane or good enough. We can do better. And I sure hope you do better than this bc that was dumb as hell. Children owe you nothing you didn't give them, including respect for their humanity.

Chihiro Stargazer
@Hans-Georg Lundahl How incredibly selfish to create life just to serve your interests. It's one of the main reasons our society is in such a mess. I can't imagine bringing any children into this ignorant greed driven horror show.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@N "if you have/had children with the explicit/sole expectation that you chose to create them just so they will provide for YOU,"

When did I say "just"? Do you equate "procreate to be cared for when you are old" with procreate to be cared for JUST when you are old"? I don't, and I think the equation is totally inane.

"rather than from a genuine desire to provide as much love and support for THEM as you reasonably can"

My desire to do that may be very genuine, but still be heightened by the prospects:
  • I get them and care for them, and have a decent old age after that
  • I don't get them or don't are for them, and as a result I'll be homeless and destitute as old ...

"because they are living beings and not a means of production"

Living beings are actually the best means of production.

And people tend to live better by being means of production than by being out of work.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Chihiro Stargazer "It's one of the main reasons our society is in such a mess."

No, you are.

"I can't imagine bringing any children into this ignorant greed driven horror show."

People were saying exactly that around 1992.

Year slices for 65 + (counting medium life expectancy both sexes as 82 + in France) were between 600 000 and 700 000 averaging all the ages.
Year slices for 25 to 49 and 50 to 64 were between 800 000 and 900 000 averaging both sets of ages.
However, years slices of 15 to 24 were NOT between 800 000 and 900 000, they were only between 700 000 and 800 000.

Why? Because people reasoned like you.
What does it lead to? Deficits in the pension funds!

Jannette Berends
In The Netherlands it was also changed, the unions helped to create a new system. It also makes sense to change the age when you look at the total amount of years somebody works. Where our grandparents started at 14 years to work, now we start in our twenties to work. I’ve got no problem with the change.

Turnip Society
Germany has much better négociations processes with union, which some times might be a problem, by nicely "manufacturing consent" down the road of pauperisation, manufacturing a larger and larger lumpenproletariat

Jannette Berends
@Turnip Society very similar to The Netherlands.


I don't hate France.

Julia Richter
@Jantine But someones kids will provide for you. Inevitably. The younger the retirement age, the more the young people have to pay. And that's the reason why we accepted the reform in Germany.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Julia Richter Exactly - someone's ...

If Germany had had more children per capita, you wouldn't have had to change - but East Germany had got into the Federation, I suppose the Communist era involved pretty liberal abortion practises?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jannette Berends "Where our grandparents started at 14 years to work, now we start in our twenties to work."

How many want to wait that long and how many had to wait or have to wait that long?

some banter on The Sorrel's initial comment (which was kind of a joke), also doing so further down.

@Hans-Georg Lundahl you can't block people on YouTube

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@CaiXiuYing Yes, you can.
Go to their profile, go to "à propos" or "about" click the flag (this by itself doesn't do anything).

Then do the specified operation, by clicking on appropriate item of the following, the first being blocking, the other three reporting:

Bloquer l'utilisateur
Signaler l'illustration de la chaîne
Signaler la photo de profil
Signaler l'utilisateur

This is also the case in Croatia and Balkan generally. JUst whining while they strip us of our right, but so docile and stupid, UNTIL you need religious zelots to protest every saturday morning in the main square.

Yeah the french people shows how to keep your rights. So sad that pension probably will be impossible for me.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@M P "UNTIL you need religious zelots to protest every saturday morning in the main square."

How so?


@Jantine My parents told me the only reason why my life is worth anything, is to pay for their retirement

It sucks

Maria Maria
As a Brit, who is likely to have to work until 70.... yes, we also did nothing. However no-one really even complained, or payed any attention in the first place! Those that did take some kind of self-important pride in being such hard workers for so long. Without realising that it's years off their lives being taken from them.

@Lucia That is horrible.
I hope you have learned that your life is worth a lot, not because of their retirement, but because of you as a person.

leon miguel
Genau so, du hast auf'm punkt gebracht!

@Hans-Georg Lundahl in Ukraine they got rid of the government in 2014, the french should do the same then we can all follow their example

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Guinness Would you get rid of abortionists and shrinks and contraception providers and child protective services as well?

France needs to stop:
  • enabling those who want to avoid children and still have sex
  • disenabling people who want families, to make and raise their own children.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Lucia It sucks, but paying for their retirement is one thing you are supposed to do in some way or another.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Maria Maria "yes, we also did nothing."

Like, none of you aborted? None of you took pills or bought rubbers? None of you took university in the most inane courses to get an entitlement to work in inane jobs?

I think some of you did some things that were a lot too much.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Jantine We matter as persons - that's one reason why persons should not be avoided by contraception or abortion.

But while one or two can matter as persons without contributing, all who matter as persons need someone to contribute.

Each generation growing up needs an older generation. But each generation getting grey needs a younger one.

Maria Maria
@Hans-Georg Lundahl I mean we did nothing specifically about the government’s proposals and so they became law. Yes, of course we all did those regrettable things too not realising that we were not “free” as we were taught to believe from such a young age.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Maria Maria OK, thank you.

Some things one does have a tendency to backfire because of others that dislike one or what one is doing - but some things backfire because of the things they are, how the results work out.

@Custos more like a whole continent. 😀

Mr. Pearly
exactly same here in the UK

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@dezafinado Anyone care to guess Poland is an exception?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Mr. Pearly But perhaps not Ireland yet, thanks to policies only recently, alas, abolished?

Nørrh Arts
Britain, we also hate France, its like the funniest thing you can say over here and I have no idea why

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Nørrh Arts Because the real issue is a tragedy, so national rivalries come off like a joke beside?

Nørrh Arts
@Hans-Georg Lundahl I do not understand this statement. Rephrase or never speak again.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Nørrh Arts The real issue, abortions and contraceptions have aged countries so much that pensions are threatened everywhere (that includes Russia, where Putin faced a severe popularity drop in 2018), US will have a similar problem in 9 more years, Ireland and Poland may have another generation, with Croatia ...

Mocking each others' nation is more fun than dealing with that problem.

Is the rephrasing OK?

Л.С. Мото
@Hans-Georg Lundahl What are you talking about? People that are born today, will have to work for their own pension/security. They're not going to be able to care for their parents. Young people nowadays can barely sustain themselves with the current housing crisis. Students pay as much rent for a crappy 1 bedroom apartment, as a family paid for a 3-4 bedroom apartment 20 years ago. And even if we do go with your logic - before your babies contribute to the economy and can provide for you or others, you first have to invest in them. A 5 year old is not going to be taking care of you. If people can barely sustain themselves, how do you expect them to now starting fricking at mass, just to make babies? The ones that do that, are the ones that are usually stuck in miserable living conditions and living from scraps, often times not even being able to meet the basic needs.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@Л.С. Мото The attitude you describe to people doing that is the attitude that keeps them poor and keeps French and Swedes of the majority from reproducing.

So, change the attitude, make more babies.

Might be more to it, certainly not less.