I think travelling abroad would be more affordable for French if they learned languages ... maybe starting with English. For the Camino de Santiago, Spanish or Portuguese would be better.
the toxic hedonism of male travel vloggers
Alice Cappelle, 29.V.2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Cf1-jn-zY
4:00 "they travel to get rid of the pain of a very normative society"
Two litteulle remarks. Here:
a) doing an act of pain avoidance or pleasure seeking doesn't equate to subscribing to hedonism;
b) they show that that normative society can be escaped and thus alleviate the pain not just for themselves, but also for others. Unlike someone trying to scare away from their content.
By the way, you can easily find healthier people than that guy who broke up with Alexis Ren.
- asdrubalivan
- @asdrubalivan18
- Yeah, there is some cherry picking in that sense in my view. She's got a point though, but it's not like if you are not an activist you are not living your life to the fullest.
And regarding hedonism, unless you damage others, I don't find issues with it.
The activist against arresting undocumented migrants though, that's something I deeply admire, but it's not a contrast with travel vloggers I think. You can admire both
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @hglundahl
- @asdrubalivan18 Not damaging others is one criterium, not the only one.
4:41 I do not happen to see people who dump trash in the ocean ...
Tell me the name of their channel so I can avoid it, unless they have an "excuse us" video ...
[Plus, the excuse had better be good!]
5:02 It so happens, travel vloggers would arguably agree with Plato.
While they show pleasurable moments, they definitely, like all other travellers, have moments that are unpleasant, enough to provide the contrast that Plato thinks so important.
If you have ever walked a pilgrimage, you will know what I mean.
5:48 You may be doing Logan Paul an injustice.
"Il devient célèbre sur Internet à partir de 2013, grâce à ses courtes vidéos humoristiques publiées sur l'application Vine avec son frère Jake2."
If he's doing humour, he may be depicting things he doesn't approve of, like John Cleese ...
[I honestly haven't seen his content, I really couldn't tell one way or the other, but I think Alice sometimes comes off as ungenerous to people not radical enough in her way.]
- Jonathan Melhuish
- @jonathanmelhuish4530
- John Cleese is a genius, not an oyster.
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @jonathanmelhuish4530 Could this be the case for Logan Paul too?
I seriously haven't seen him.
- Amanda, Panda 🐼
- @HeySlothKid
- @hglundahl Logan Paul once posted uncensored footage of a dead body (a suicide) while vlogging in Japan. He's no John Cleese
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @HeySlothKid He may have shown some kind of attention to the Japanese propensity for suicides?
- Amanda, Panda 🐼
- @hglundahl he zoomed in on the body and made jokes, then posted the footage of the body publically. All this on a trip where he had already been posting footage of him mocking Japanese people and culture, causing public disruption, throwing things at people and generally behaving like an entitled ass. I'm not saying he hasn't grown or changed since then (that's up for debate) but his behaviour back then was abysmal.
Edited to add: based on your comment history I doubt you're going to pay my response much mind. I do however wonder why you felt the need to defend a person you know so little about - if you "seriously haven't seen him" how do you assume Alice is doing him an injustice?
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @HeySlothKid OK, sounds like you have a point.
Alice seemed somewhat disingenious on the topic, so I would not have total confidence in her assessment.
6:27 Any travel vlogs I do reglarly watch remind of Simon, in that respect.
[It's about friendship, helping each other]
9:14 "a lot of us don't have the money to do so"
Reminds me of a Traveller inlaw to my grandparents who thought ma and me travelled too much.
Traveller, as in Yeniche, Manouche, in Swedish Tattare. You don't need to travel abroad to belong to this, shall we say, sub-culture ethnicity.
Ma and me were not Travellers, you don't inherit the ethnicity of your aunt in law, or your great auant in law or your cousin or your cousin once removed ... but we actually travelled, and people from that corner of the family wondered how we had that money.
The fact is, if you can save things during terms when enjoying a Swedish study loan, if you can baby sit, as ma certainly could, if you can make friends, as ma certainly could, if you don't need to have every penny planned in advance, you actually can travel abroad without being rich.
Case in point, the Summer in the US. Ma ran out of money while we were in California, we were hosted in a house, so food and shelter was no problem, but we needed to get on the plane for Vienna which was from New York, and so the congregation (yes, Evangelical, more Fundamentalist than Pentecostal) where we were worshipping and hearing sermons that I thought were boring (but praying wasn't), and to which our host family belonged, they made a collection to help us pay for the Greyhound bus across the US, and we arrived in Vienna when I started Third Grade (on dirait troisième année en Belgique, je ne sais pas comment on dit en France pour la troisième année du primaire). Also, living in Vienna wasn't expensive, ma had the same amount of study loan as if studying in Sweden, but Austria was a cheaper country in many ways.
"and that's why we watch that content, it's a form of escapism"
I can't see the point of avoiding Escapism at all costs.
I can definitely see a point in avoiding the wrong type of Escapism, the one you dream about living but never get around to live. But that would more often be the kind of books that are written by people who want to preach the message of some psychotherapist than watching real people have real fun. Have you ever tried to ask Jay Alvarez how he pays for the content he is showing?
10:22 Travelling isn't unaffordable.
You want young people to be more radical than that?
Fine. Tell teens to:
- not abort
- get engaged for marriage (same age or man older)
- stay engaged to when marriage can be realised, whether at 18 or by asking the pertinent authority (not sure if it would be the Prefect or the President of the Republic) to marry earlier.
That may of course involve finding a job unusually early. As I am a writer, already published 12 000 blog posts on the internet, including some commenting on your videos, the job of book publisher (maison d'édition), which is a be your own boss job (also radical) is there for the taking.
- Hali G
- @ahlimahs
- How does marriage & motherhood give women freedom to travel?
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @ahlimahs That could happen too, but I was answering about Alice Cappelle's challenge about sth more radical than travelling abroad.
Marriage and motherhood or for men fatherhood, definitely is that.
- Brightspear
- @brightspear
- i don't believe those things are very radical when it's widely socially pushed for young people to start families, firstly by their parents who often want to have grandkids as early as possible. unless you mean young people being radical in that they don't do what is characteristic for every younger generation in history, which is to challenge the social norms enforced by older generations.
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @brightspear "it's widely socially pushed for young people to start families"
When they are 25, yes.
When the girl is 15, no.
Btw, in France, prior to 2006 and beginning of 2006, a girl of 15 could marry. Legally.
- Brightspear
- @hglundahl no, that is not the case. I grew up in the United Kingdom and in my personal experience there were already some people in my school year that already had a child just as they came out of school at 18. Several more got married and had their first child in the first 2 years. It's very typical for families with a religious background.
I was born in Eastern Europe and I can tell you that in most non-western groupist cultures, both men and women aren't given much leeway in delaying doing their "familial obligations", since it's directly tied to status and social stigma and shame if you don't have all those things put together at the age their parents did the same (said parents not really caring about or denying that the circumstances they lived in were very different).
- coolchameleon21
- @coolchameleon21
- that is in no way radical that’s literally what women have been expected to do for centuries
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @brightspear " in my personal experience there were already some people in my school year that already had a child just as they came out of school at 18. Several more got married and had their first child in the first 2 years."
Perhaps you come from an area I would consider radical, then?
Here is more typical stats from the Parliament:
// One reason for this is that men and women have been delaying the age at which they first get married. The average age at first marriage is now 31, compared with a 20th century low of 23 in 1970. //
Some precision:
// The average age of a newlywed in the U.K. is 30.6 for women and 32.1 for men //
"said parents not really caring about or denying that the circumstances they lived in were very different"
The radical thing to do would be to push circumstances back so young marriages become feasible again.
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @coolchameleon21 That's what women have been expected to do during Christian centuries, so it's radical in a post-Christian world.
- Brightspear
- @hglundahl I suppose I agree with your last point. I wonder though, theoretically, the goal of any activism tends to be improving the state of things until people live the better life they envisage. That in turn would incentivise comfort and support in wishing to have a family early. Except for that to happen, there would have to be social security for it, as well as a return of communal unity which is very much missing in this digital age.
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @brightspear "as well as a return of communal unity"
Which could be fostered by the young marriages and children of young couples, right?
- Brightspear
- @hglundahl how, when their parents would be working full-time jobs to maintain their lifestyles, and the young people in turn have to do the same to offset the added financial and time burden of raising children?
Also collective infrastructure for the gathering of people and for the sake of hosting young parents and third places for young children is in shambles currently, hardly anything new is being built, and what exist has been in decline for a long time, even before COVID.
- Hans Georg Lundahl
- @brightspear "and the young people in turn have to do the same"
Two full time jobs are not absolutely needed to raise a new born.
Partly, studying and raising a child is compatible these days.
Plus, as mentioned, some couples could start business on my work as writer, with them as publisher.
"for the gathering of people and for the sake of hosting young parents"
What exactly do you mean?
I mean, couples that have babies tend to find some place to live, sooner or later, right? Collective or not. That shouldn't be the default.
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