Friday, May 3, 2024

Isdal Woman, Speculations and Rambles

The Isdal Woman: Europe's Most Famous Unidentified Person | Answers With Joe
Joe Scott | 29 nov. 2021

17:57 Let's put some things together:

Nuremberg area, early 30's to 45

1970 - 30 = 1940
1970 - 45 = 1925

Age in 1945 = 5 to 20.

Early 30's = a bit more than 30. Age in 1945 = a bit more than 5.

What if her parents had some NS connexion? What if she was the daughter of for instance Hitler or someone?

Some people after 1945 went into tracking NS war criminals. Could some have had a kind of paranoia about even allowing their children to live?

La mort obsédante de la femme Isdal
[Probably shows me the French title, because I am in France]
Random Nights | 19 juin 2023

Isdal Woman (Cold War Mystery) - Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World
Jimmy Akin | 6 May 2022

32:19 What? February 5th? St. Agatha's Day?

27 years to the day for my resistance at Likenäs .... (which landed me in prison for 3 1/2 years * 2/3) ...

37:34 One can be innocent and yet share situations with tracked criminals.

Her age has been described as between early 30's and 45, and another video mentioned a substance with some kind of tie which I didn't totally understand to Nuremberg.

If she was German and above 5 but at most 20, she could have been the daughter of an NS actual or presumed War Criminal.

We know for very sure, people like Simon Wiesenthal have taken very great lengths to track war criminals themselves. Presumably, according to their official persona, however not trying to wreak revenge on children of them.

However, they are Jews. The most holy book of Judaism isn't the Four Gospels, it's the Torah, four out of five taking place in the Bronze Age (Genesis ends but doesn't begin in it), a much crueller time in many ways. Netanyahu recently made a kind of reference to eradicating Amalec. Do you get my drift? I'm not saying all of them are like that. I'm saying that kind of ideas of cutting off offspring do occur within that community.

* She could be in danger (have been, my bad) * or her daughter or even more so son could be in danger from that kind of persecutors. The child could have had adoptive parents, and keeping away from them, or keeping her away from them, could have been a way to actually get safety for her child.

On that kind of backdrop, she could be innocent as a dove, and still have to be subtler than most snakes.

Her murderers could have tried to make her reveal the placement of a child, or her murderer could have tried to keep the child safe, tried to prevent her from revealing it accidentally, depending on whether they were NS hunters more extreme than Wiensenthal or on the contrary NS agents. Unlike as for her, I have no reason to think they were practising Catholics at this point.

39:00 According to the other video, she frequently made sure to get attention at the hotels.

If she was simply a criminal, she would probably avoid attention.

I'm reminded of that Father Brown, when Father Brown makes sure to turn things upside down in more than one place, in an ultimately successful attempt to make police follow him. I think it's "The Blue Cross" ...

So, she was more arguably either paranoid (high functioning) or actually had reasons to believed she was tracked. And not by law abiding policemen.

41:25 Garlic, again sth which might have been a way to get attention.

People annoyed with her would become spontaneous body-guards against any real criminals — or "avengers" if you prefer.

43:29 You omitted (so far, you might add next second) another factor.

Norway was developing a military air craft which is still in use.

Note, that's an excellent reason for a spy to be in the Bergen area, but her travels over Norway seem very ... trapezoid, according to the other video, ... so, she was not simply in the Bergen area.

47:06 "Just because someone is a spy doesn't mean they are good at their job ...."

I was hearing none of that idea when it came to stating why the novel by Marie Carré was a novel and not a real thing ...

If the Isdal woman was actually a spy, she showed exactly the incompetence in a spy, which according to you spies don't show.

If on the other hand, she was the daughter of some highranking NS, if she was maybe also a mother who had placed her child to keep him (or her) out of the way of persecutors, if she was trying to keep alive while praying for her child, maybe looking for occasions to secretly meet him, or simply, while not committing suicide, trying to avoid getting in the kind of situation where she would betray her child, in that case, she was instead highly competent.

Calling attention to herself by wreaking havoc in hotel rooms, keeping men at arm's length by a taste for garlic probably more common in South Germany than in Norway, well, that's partly a way of keeping chaste while single, and partly a way of getting annoyed people to act as body guards so agents sent to kill or question her could have no occasion to get at her.

47:15 What exactly points to her being born in 1944?

On the other video [Joe Scott], she was described as "early thirties" or for some descriptions even "45" ...

Giving her age at the Collapse of the Third Reich as more than 5, but maximally 20. If she was born in 1944, she would obviously still have been born before some NS dignitaries died.

1:05:36 Childhood in Nuremberg (so on the other video, they were talking of isotopes).

Later on moved elsewhere.

Again, sth one would expect of a woman born to an NS dignitary, but who then was moved away from Germany for her security.

Could also be the case of a Jewish child moved away from Germany. A very different type of security reason.

1:07:15 So, Nuremberg, some time after, perhaps before 1940, and moved away for security, if that was the reason, more compatible with NS than with Jewish.

1:08:55 And Norwegian wikipedia had a notice:

"Lokalpressen spekulerte dessuten i om kvinnen kunne være Israel-avhopper som ble ekspedert av sine egne."

The local press was furthermore speculating that the woman could have been an Israeli defector who was executed by her own.

1:09:41 She seems somewhat tense. As if in some kind of grief.

1:11:04 If the pills stopped her from the rolling around?

Supposing it was some kind of suicide, this could have been an attempt of making sure she regretted it so much (without being able to do anything about it) that she could make an act of contrition.

Apart from suicides that totally fail, this is the most likely way of a suicide making it to heaven I have heard of since Tchaikovsky deliberately got cholera which he died in.

1:13:07 Plus, as said, all more peopled places she had been in Norway definitely would not have been safe to try, since, well, she succeeded very well in getting attention.

If the limelight is on you, and you are murdered, the limelight will be on your killer as well.

Indeed, if the killer is too slow, it could be on him before he manages to kill you, that might save your life.

This could be a reason she (pretty openly) watched the tests for the Penguin system. Naval officers aren't incompetent in stopping killings, "even if they are Norwegian" (sorry, that's just a corny reference to a corny joke Swedes and Norwegians have about each other).

Again, if she had some kind of child, and the killers were after it as well, killing her remotely would make sure those keeping the child would not hear of it too soon.

1:17:53 If they were Gipsies, that could be the kind of people who might either be used to track even relatives of NS criminals or even do so on their own hand.

Pretty obviously, either they had made an agreement she would be executed and her appeal to Ketil would only have brought him danger, without saving her, or she was followed and walking on a path where she survived a while as long as she met people.

1:18:32 "it's an international case, and it's never going to be solved"

Again, sth which one pretty much might expect from the tracking and murder of a child of NS real or presumed war criminals.

People forbidden to look into things.

1:19:43 Indeed. Ketil Kversøy could have bought her 24 hours more to live.

1:23:18 Just in case anyone is trying to present me as suicidal, I've never been in such thoughts for longer than half an hour, that half hour was before getting to talk to a girl, I had worked myself up so I could say without direct lying to her "if you don't marry me" (and I thought it just could work, two parents of mine came into marriages that didn't end up too well bc they responded to such a threat), and her response was to tell me of her dog who would be so sad ... I don't think I met the dog, but it was impossible to stay even "conditionally suicidal" after such a ridiculous reply.

On other occasions (two, at 15 and going on 18) when it was like 5 minutes, I recalled what CSL had said about Hell (at least the second time, not sure I had read The Great Divorce before the first time).

One reason why I'm unhappy about "empty Hell" theories, some suicides that do happen could be by people who hoped no suicide could be voluntary, therefore no mortal sin, therefore no damnation. Well, yes, mortal sins and damnation are real things.

31:07 If that police officer knew she had been tracked for her origin (or as a defector), he was obviously capable of saying with confidence she was not a spy.

Apart from that, he seemed more hesitant in ruling out the murder.

And here is a little reflection on the honesty of Norwegian police in sensitive situations.

2012, a certain Breivik killed 77 older children and younger teens on a Social Democratic Youth Group's summer camp on Utøya.

The day after, he was excluded from Johannis-losjen Søjlerne. He was a freemason when this happened. Sth pretty close to regular British freemasonry, that's how freemasonry is in Sweden and in Norway. Not Scottish Rite, not Shriners, and definitely not Grand Orient. Over the weeks it also surfaced that he was not a believing Christian. He was a cultural Christian, not totally unlike Dawkin's in that respect (though playing the piano like Dawkins and playing the "violin" of the Mafia are two very different talents, two very different personalities). He was totally against homeschooling or Christian private schools, one of his griefs against Muslim Immigrants was precisely that they were putting secularism in danger.

Well, what did Norwegian police say the exact same day that he was caught? They had apparently, according to their story, caught a "Fundamentalist Christian" ... this report was broadcasted over France as well, which is why I (a Fundie Catholic) looked into his actual beliefs.

Totally different track.

She could have been some kind of Catholic secret wife to some kind of Protestant royalty.

Back to same track, again, Norwegian wiki:

"Universitetet i Bergen foresto analysene av strontiumisotopene og oksygenisotopene på vegne av KRIPOS."

On behalf of KRIPOS, the University of Bergen led the analyses of strontium and oxygen isotopes.

"Sammensetningen av de ulike strontiumisotopene varierer med hvor i verden man har vært, og hva man har spist, mens oksygenisotopene forteller mer om drikkevannet der man kommer fra."

The mixture of different strontium isotopes varies on where in the world one was and what one ate, while the oxygen isotopes tell more about drinking water from the area you are from.

"Resultatene fra analysene ble tolket ved University of Canberra i Australia."

The result of the analyses was interpreted by the University of Canberra, Australia.

"Der ble isotopsammensetningen i en tann som stammet fra tidlig barndom, og to tenner som stammet fra tenårene analysert."

There the isotope composition in a tooth from early childhood and two teeth from the teens were analysed.

"Konklusjonen var at kvinnen kan ha tilbragt sine første leveår sørøst i Tyskland."

The conclusion was, the woman can have spent her first years of life in South East Germany.

"Deretter kan hun ha flyttet vestover, og tilbragte tenårene i regionen Lorraine i det nordøstlige Frankrike, på grensen til Luxembourg og Vest-Tyskland.[11]"

After that she can have moved West, and spent the teens in the region of Lorraine in North East France, on the frontier of Luxembourg and West Germany.

"Den sistnevnte konklusjonen stemmer overens med håndskriftsanalyser som er utført av KRIPOS, og som peker mot at Isdalskvinnen fikk skriveopplæringen sin i Frankrike, Belgia eller et annet fransktalende land.[12]"

The latter conclusion also agrees with the hand writing analysis (or graphology) performed by KRIPOS, which points to the Isdal woman being taught how to write in France, Belgium or another French speaking country.

[On the latter issue, schools in England and Austria promote a fairly round hand writing, while France, Spain, and presumably Belgium, prefer a fairly thin one. A lower case L in England or Austria would be a loop, oblong, but still a loop. A lower case L in France, Spain, presumably Belgium, would be a line. You get a line upwards, and then you trace the pen through the exact same line until you branch off for the next letter.]

It might seem the geographical areas are pretty conclusive, since, while either strontium or oxygen would have signatures recurring in different places, the combination of two isotope signatures would be less likely to coincide between different areas.

And what if the guys following the Isdal woman were involved in this kind of stuff? Here:

The Cult With CIA Ties | blameitonjorge
blameitonjorge | 3 Oct. 2020

For her identity, we can exclude the Goebbels daughters:

Helga (12), Hilde (11), Holde (9), Hedwig (7) und Heidrun (4).

Mecklenburg and Brandenburg are not in South East Germany, they are North-East Germany.

We can also exclude the daughter of Goering, since her life is known, I think she died in Sweden, she certainly loved Sweden, and she proposed that not only her mother, but also her father were saving Jews. For the latter, I have anecdotal evidence. My gramp found a couple in Israel who told the story of how Goering (their longstanding friend) had passed them off as Aryans, without actually even saying so. Edda didn't die in Isdalen.

So, on that track, the most probable idea would be an unknown daughter of Hitler himself.

Or, she could have been the daughter of someone hunted by people like Wiesenthal, and killed for refusing to give the info.

"Though most of the Jews still alive in Linz had emigrated after the war, Wiesenthal decided to stay on, partly because the family of Adolf Eichmann lived a few blocks away from him.[44][45] Eichmann had been in charge of the transportation and deportation of Jews in the Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question: a plan to exterminate all the Jews in Europe, finalised at the Wannsee Conference, at which Eichmann took the minutes.[46] After the war, Eichmann hid in Austria using forged identity papers until 1950, when he left via Italy, and moved to Argentina under an assumed name.[47][48] Hoping to obtain information on Eichmann's whereabouts, Wiesenthal continuously monitored the remaining members of the immediate family in Linz until they vanished in 1952.[49]"

However, Eichmann's children are out of question, since Eichmann had been executed already in 1962, and since his children didn't grow up around the relevant isotope types.

And, obviously, the story of Angelina Szelest could suggest, she could have been targetted for her father being in the resistance against the Soviets, like their assessment of Bandera is very harsh, and we know Soviets have targetted children of people they dislike.

Alexei Nikolaevich, Tsarevich of Russia, at age 13, was not killed for anything he had himself done.

But Yakov Yurovsky was ethnically Jewish ...

Could modern Jews do such things?

I am not asking if all could. No, no way. Most certainly couldn't. Same goes for the time when St. William or Norwich was killed.

The two stories that follow are not about suppressing a Christian because a Christian, but they are about killing of people considered by some as "viper brood" because children of people known or suspected of supporting Hamas.

Or, yet another theory, she could have been involved in bringing forth "Rosemary's Baby" and have been killed for wanting the child to grow up a Christian.

Just came to that hunch, when clicking on "Windswept House Exposed: Vatican's Satanic Cardinal Coven"

Some guys who reject Jesus want another Messiah. Jews may not be all of them, some Satanists may hope the Apocalypse partly prophecied their Messiah. Or some guys into very massive Realpolitik could be willing to risk someone's soul just for the power of 3 and 1/2 years ... obviously hoping the other stuff after that is a joke, which it isn't.

Al Jazeera : Israeli forces kill three children of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Gaza
By Al Jazeera Staff Published On 10 Apr 2024 Updated: 06:44 PM (GMT)

IDF Likely KILLED This Little Girl, Investigation Uncovers
The Young Turks | 18 April 2024

Other video, in the Isdal Woman:

Have we identified the Isdal Woman? Death in Ice Valley, Episode 12 — BBC World Service
BBC World Service | 7 July 2021

40:47 Högerova.

It is a real name for a place in Prague. Not sure if it's a monument or a street crossing, but its connected to Hlubočepy.

44:17 I find "Steel Material: C 22.8 (DIN/EN)"

Some would abbreviate chapter and verse with a comma instead of a colon, so, searching "22,8" I get a hit on

English Revised Version
And I John am he that heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

= Apocalypse 22:8

[If we want to go through the Bible for verses, chapter 22, verse 8, the first one is conspicuously in Genesis. And Abraham said: God will provide himself a victim for an holocaust, my son. So they went on together.]

45:45 Porridge and coffee is not just popular in Eastern Europe but also Northern.

A Swede, Dane or Norwegian, would relish it as much as a Russian or Ukrainean.

Didn't hear to this moment that the latter shared this preference.

59:52 Why a Ukrainiean radio in Rome?

Well, the Pope was supporting the Ukrainean Uniates, who were outlawed in the Soviets.

That would be one reason.

1:09:55 I think, given her looks (in Norway), the Isdal woman would have been younger than not just Angelina Szelest, but also other women of the NS forced labour.

Plus Ukrainean upbringing would not give her the isotope signature that was found for oxygen or strontium.

If she were Ukrainean, she could be the daughter of, if not Bandera, some other member of his Ukrainean anti-Soviet resistance, had a very young daughter sent to Nuremberg for safety, and then sent on to Belgium (to the Ukrainean workers you mentioned) for better safety than in Nuremberg, after 1945.

These men were tracked as criminals by the Soviets, and these were sometimes very prone to target children of important "criminals" as equivalent of their parents.

When the Czar was shot, not just his wife was shot, but his daughters as well. And the Czarevich too.

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