NO changes. NO alterations. NO "new light." NO cultural influences. | Team Identical | Intro to PX
Deconstruct & Level Up | 9 Oct. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnqy6y9wnt4
I was taught basically team identical, and taught so by an Evangelical / Salvationist / Lutheran, at the time, mother.
This brought me to Roman Catholicism.
If we interpret the text through the 6:42 lens of our culture we're using eise- 6:44 -gesis because if we're interpreting it 6:46 through our culture we're not 6:48 interpreting it through Paul's culture 6:50 or the culture of the rest of the 6:52 Apostles and if we're not doing that 6:54 then we're not drawing out their 6:56 intended meaning
1) Wrong. That's like saying, if St. Paul didn't share the culture of Moses (Egyptian pharaonic court and shepherd life with Jethro being pretty far from the Roman Empire or Gamaliel), he didn't know what Moses was talking about. The message can survive the culture and the later culture can be actually informed by the message.
2) Supposing it were true, this would make the Reformation, as coming in the Humanist new insights about ancient Roman culture, would be a starting point for "new light" ...
3) And how St. Paul reads Moses, I think many Jews will tell you, that's eisegesis just as much as you accuse Catholics of doing eisegesis over Luke 1:28 or Luke 1:42 in connexion with sinlessness of Mary
4) Again, you are basically, when even introducing the category, presupposing each generation of Christians, rather than continuing old Hail Mary's (see Luke 1:48) should come as if new to the text, which is the opposite of receiving the text with the message as one single tradition (which from the outside could be judged as "eisegesis").
8:25 No, it does not apply to any culture that is not the culture of the original authors.
It does not apply to a culture that grows out of Christianity, because a nation has been discipled (according to Jesus' own command in Matthew 28:16—20) by the original twelve or their subordinates (Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch) or their successors (like St. Ansgar became a bishop of Hamburg-Bremen, consecrated while leaving Worms in November 831 on the authorisation of Pope Gregory IV).
8:42 What if Feudalism was influenced by Christianity?
What if a vassal's relation to his liegelord was defined by the way earlier fealty of St. Eugippius who had been disciple of St. Severine, or how St. Benignus of Armagh felt about St. Patrick?
What if you have misanalysed the relations between 12th C. Catholicism and 12th C. Feudalism?
9:19 If you carefully read St. Thomas Aquinas, you will find the Anselmian theory is just one of the ways in which Christ reconciled man to God.
Nailing Satan's claim is actually also there. Here is the corpus (article between objections and answers to objections) of III Pars, Q 49, A 2:
I answer that, There are three things to be considered regarding the power which the devil exercised over men previous to Christ's Passion. The first is on man's own part, who by his sin deserved to be delivered over to the devil's power, and was overcome by his tempting. Another point is on God's part, whom man had offended by sinning, and who with justice left man under the devil's power. The third is on the devil's part, who out of his most wicked will hindered man from securing his salvation.
As to the first point, by Christ's Passion man was delivered from the devil's power, in so far as the Passion is the cause of the forgiveness of sins, as stated above (Article 1). As to the second, it must be said that Christ's Passion freed us from the devil's power, inasmuch as it reconciled us with God, as shall be shown later (Article 4). But as to the third, Christ's Passion delivered us from the devil, inasmuch as in Christ's Passion he exceeded the limit of power assigned him by God, by conspiring to bring about Christ's death, Who, being sinless, did not deserve to die. Hence Augustine says (De Trin. xiii, cap. xiv): "The devil was vanquished by Christ's justice: because, while discovering in Him nothing deserving of death, nevertheless he slew Him. And it is certainly just that the debtors whom he held captive should be set at liberty since they believed in Him whom the devil slew, though He was no debtor."
10:09 If a changed version of Christianity has been believed for 300 years, you look for the Christians who didn't change during the same 300 years.
Pretending that you, by reading the Bible, restore any salvific truth which has been lost for 300 years is against Matthew 28:16—20.
I can consider Geocentrism was widely neglected for 200 years, and needs to be restored for Apologetic purposes, but it's a secondary point about God as a Creator. It's how St. Paul very arguably says that the Pagans were able to know God in Romans 1. Geocentrism fits the bill better than the flagellum of the bacterium, because the flagellum of the bacterium is only recently discovered. Geocentrism fits the bill better than simple appeals to beauty, because St. Paul was very certainly not a disciple of Friedrich Schleiermacher. The words "clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made", well, "understood" is certainly taken in a fully intellectual meaning. And while the atheist Epicure was also Geocentric, he was very inattentive about astronomy.Ptolemy was not an Atheist.
However, there is no similar thing to be said for recovering pre-Anselmian theology centuries after Anselm, unless you do so by going para-Anselmian. Which St. Thomas shows is not necessary.
14:11 So far, you are not giving a very correct view of the split.
St. Augustine and his view on original sin is pretty identical to that of Palamas. The latter however, unlike Augustine, believed the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin.
14:37 Roman Catholicism still lives in the Christus Victor house.
15:23 Come on.
Purgatory is found in St. Gregory the Great, centuries before Anselm.
In his dialogues, and you call him "St. Gregory the Dialogist" he reports souls from Purgatory asking for intercessions, and obviously also getting them.
16:56 One Orthodox who rejected Purgatory (but not prayers for the dead) was a certain Mark of Ephesus.
His view on 1 Corinthians 3 is, it refers to Hell. That's also his view on Luke 12:58—59.
Whereas Luke 12:58-59 technically could involve Hell, it could involve people who actually never pay the last mite and therefore never get out of the prison, this is a bit harder to defend as to 1 Corinthians 3.
For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire
[1 Corinthians 3:11—15]
Mark of Ephesus pretended "saved" involves a Greek verb which simply means "preserved" (in existence, it denies annihilation of damned persons), and so could refer to Hell.
However, a work that burns would in this case involve a work of "wood, hay, stubble" ...which in context is still a work built on the foundation of Christ. That is why we say, this is not about Hell, this is about Purgatory. About people who are saved in the fully salvific sense, saved for final glory, even if they lose some time before entering it.
Here is the comment by Challoner:
[12] "Upon this foundation": The foundation is Christ and his doctrine: or the true faith in him, working through charity. The building upon this foundation gold, silver, and precious stones, signifies the more perfect preaching and practice of the gospel; the wood, hay, and stubble, such preaching as that of the Corinthian teachers (who affected the pomp of words and human eloquence) and such practice as is mixed with much imperfection, and many lesser sins. Now the day of the Lord, and his fiery trial, (in the particular judgment immediately after death,) shall make manifest of what sort every man's work has been: of which, during this life, it is hard to make a judgment. For then the fire of God's judgment shall try every man's work. And they, whose works, like wood, hay, and stubble, cannot abide the fire, shall suffer loss; these works being found to be of no value; yet they themselves, having built upon the right foundation, (by living and dying in the true faith and in the state of grace, though with some imperfection,) shall be saved yet so as by fire; being liable to this punishment, by reason of the wood, hay, and stubble, which was mixed with their building.
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