Catholicism and Pope Michael (I & II)

More Proof that the Early Church was Catholic
Shameless Popery Podcast | 1 Oct. 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMASBV7bNrQ

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

From the thumbnail. "Both are Catholic" ... well, St. Peter was, and is still in Heaven, of course, I don't that Bergoglio is ...

Vman93

@vman9347

You mean Pope Francis?

tony

@tony1685

Peter is most likely not in Heaven, as we don't go immediately at death.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@tony1685 Martyrs do.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@vman9347 I don't refer to Jorge Mario Bergoglio as "the Pope" ...

Vman93

@tony1685 Bro what? St Peter isn’t in Heaven? That’s a wild take

tony

@hglundahl where do i see this in Scripture?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@vman9347 I did get in line and accept Pope Michael I, he has a successor, Michael II.

M-I ruled longer than Pius IX.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@tony1685 Perhaps here:

A faithful saying: for if we be dead with him, we shall live also with him.
[2 Timothy 2:11]

How soon?

Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live:
[John 11:25]

There were only a few days left until He opened the pearly gates, so this doesn't necessarily refer to existence in Sheol.

Where?

Who also said: Ye men of Galilee, why stand you looking up to heaven? This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven
[Acts Of Apostles 1:11]

Francis Marion

@francismarion6400

@tony1685 Why would you not go immediately to heaven?

tony

@hglundahl 2 Tim 2:11 — does not say at death, we will be with Him.
John 11:25 — speaking of after the resurrection — Job is dead and in the ground — Job 14:12, as is David — Acts 2:29

Acts 1:11 — yes, Jesus is in Heaven, that doesn't mean we ignore 1 Thess 5:16-18 & 1 Cor 15:51-54
Scripture does not contradict Scripture.

tony

@francismarion6400 what good then would be the resurrection??
i keep posing proof, but it keeps being deleted.

Francis Marion

@tony1685 I don't know what you mean. Christ was resurrected already. He said on the Cross "It is finished".

Vman93

@hglundahl Lmao well that’s comical

tony

@francismarion6400 'It is finished' was Him paying the bill for repentant sinners, not for those who choose to live in sin.
it can't all be finished, since there is still sin and death. think it through, francis. this is pertaining to our resurrection.

Francis Marion

@tony1685 I don't understand what you mean "then what good is the resurrection "?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@tony1685 "does not say at death, we will be with Him."

I know, that's why I followed up with "when"

"speaking of after the resurrection"

That is going beyond the actual text, as much as I did.

"Job is dead and in the ground — Job 14:12, as is David — Acts 2:29"

Job's body is in the ground, His soul came up to Heaven when Christ opened the Pearly Gates.

Job 14:12 So man when he is fallen asleep shall not rise again; till the heavens be broken, he shall not awake, nor rise up out of his sleep.

Speaks of the body.

Acts 2:29 Ye men, brethren, let me freely speak to you of the patriarch David; that he died, and was buried; and his sepulchre is with us to this present day.

The sepulchre holds the body.

I Thessalonians 5:16 Always rejoice. 17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all.

What is the relevance to the question? I tried II Thessalonians if you had meant that, but has no chapter 5.

I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again: but we shall not all be changed. 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible: and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption; and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 And when this mortal hath put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.

Speaks of the Resurrection of the Body. Which we do not deny. Back in 1215 it was the heretics who were denying resurrection of the body, so we confessed, first part of IV Lateran council:

He will come at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, to render to every person according to his works, both to the reprobate and to the elect. All of them will rise with their own bodies, which they now wear, so as to receive according to their deserts, whether these be good or bad; for the latter perpetual punishment with the devil, for the former eternal glory with Christ.

The immediate reward of some souls in Heaven and the immediate punishment of basically all damned souls in Hell is a soul only affair, at the resurrection the bodies and visibility for all will be added to the situations.

"what good then would be the resurrection??"

The bodies participated in sins and in virtuous acts, it is just that at resurrection of the dead the bodies be joined to the rewards or punishments of the soul.

[this comment seems to have been deleted since I posted it]

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@vman9347 16th July 1990 to 2nd August 2022 is over 32 years, Pius IX ruled a bit short of 32 years.

Since when is good mathematics comical?

Vman93

@hglundahl 1990 he was elected pope by a group of six laypeople, including himself and his parents.

Is this ur pope?

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@vman9347 He didn't vote for himself, and those were the people who showed up.

There have been popes elected by mainly lay electorates all over the First Millennium and Pope Innocent II was elected by a committee of six people outside the curia.

It's much more important whether Wojtyla was in 1990 Pope, had forfeited papacy or had preforfeited it prior to election.

Vman93

@hglundahl I’m sorry but all of that is nonsense. This “Pope Michael” dude doesn’t have apostolic Sucession and is just some random dude with no authority.

While Pope Francis has apostolic Sucession and is responsible for 2.4 billion Catholics worldwide.

Compare that to Pope Michael who only in charge of his local town deli. His rejection of Vatican 2 is just this arbitrary thing, he is the extreme “Trad Catholics”

Hans-Georg Lundahl

"This “Pope Michael” dude doesn’t have apostolic Sucession"

You missed that he died in 2022.

More importantly, you miss the distinction he did get apostolic succession as bishop in 2011. If the new rites are invalid, Bergoglio never even was priest.

And you miss that getting elected as Pope and getting apostolic succession as (ontologically) a bishop are two different things.

You seem furthermore to have missed the outreach he had in later years, I think your level of news about him (and your priest's) may be a somewhat accurate update from 17th July 1990. Updates after that you (and your priest) seem to have shut out.