Brother.M and Peter Wallis Continued

Should I Thank Protestants Who Worry? No. · Brother.M and Peter Wallis Continued

Brother.M

@br.m

@peterwallis4288 Jesus told Nicodemus not to play with the rosary?

Peter Wallis

@peterwallis4288

@br.m don't pretend to misunderstand me. Jesus told him that baptism and belief were necessary.

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 No I think you have misunderstood the interaction between Jesus and Nicodemus.

Jesus was not explaining to Nicodemus what to do. That would be work based salvation, my friend.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus who he is and what he came to do. Nicodemus arrived thinking Jesus was a rabbi send by God. Nicodemus left knowing that Jesus is the Messiah and will be exalted and that salvation is for the world and not an exclusive club for those begotten of the flesh. That is, those descended from Abrahams blood.

Peter Wallis

@br.m I'm not sure I can view baptism as a 'work'. I suppose, technically it is. But technically, believing is a work. Because you put work into understanding the gospels, then you think and eventually believe.

But I think what you mean by work is doing good deeds in the hopes they will get you into heaven. I don't think baptism fits into that category. It's a symbol of your commitment, it's not something like giving money, or helping at a children's home to get brownie points with God.

However, there are other verses that do not mention baptism being necessary. Whether it is or not, how can praying the rosary take away or keep you from salvation?

@br.m if anyone says the rosary is necessary for salvation, they are wrong. That is not in the Catechism. It is a collection of prayers. The idea being not to pile prayers on prayers to get God to listen, but to take time out of your day to think about the prayers and the "mysteries" (aspects of the Gospels). Prayer is a way to get closer to God. I mean that it plays no part in salvation, but can help you to get closer to God in this life.

@br.m you can be a Catholic and never pray the rosary. It's not a requirement for salvation.

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 Sorry but baptism is not a work. Nor is believing..

Both are gifts that Christians have bestowed upon them.

The rosary is nonsense. Just like other things Catholics do. Even if rosary is optional, it is just one of many things unbiblical and anti-Christian that Catholics do and preach.

Peter Wallis

@br.m the rosary is just prayers. How can prayers be nonsense?

@br.m and great, you agree that saying baptism is necessary is not works based salvation.

@br.m and actually, Nicodemus did ask how can you be born again, then Jesus explained how. So he was explaining what to do.

@br.m you know what? Don't bother. I've tried to answer Protestant's misconceptions many times, and they don't listen and consider what I say. So I really don't expect you to be any different. I'll just dump it all here, pre-emptively.

No, we don't worship Mary. No, prayer is not the same thing as worship. The word also means to make a formal request. I can pray to my friends. It's just that that old meaning of the word is hardly ever used now outside of Catholicism. Since the saints are definitely alive in heaven, it is not communicating with the dead. We don't worship statues. They are like having a photo of your dear friend, which is in no way wrong.

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 No sir. Nicodemus misunderstood what Jesus was saying.

Jesus said that he must be "born from above" but Nicodemus thought he was saying "born a second time".

This is what I already pointed out. Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus, who he is and what he came to do. Jesus was born from above. The Spirit rested on him.

I could have tried to help you understand but it is quite a lot to unpack, and you don't seem to be ready to hear it. You seem focused on teaching me something I don't need to learn. You seem to only be reading my comments, so that you can reply to me yo say your opinions. You never seemed interested in any conversation, or that I might have a deeper understanding than yours.

You are forgetting context and you are eisegeting.

Peter Wallis

@br.m he also said, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and spirit." I mean, how else would you explain that? (John 3:5).

And this is a red herring to what we were originally talking about. You claimed that the rosary would somehow prevent your salvation. Well, I don't see why it would.

@br.m and then you say that is works based salvation, but then you seemed to walk that back, claiming baptism is not a work (I agree, therefore it is not works based salvation).

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 I'm not walking back. Good luck friend.

Peter Wallis

@br.m you say that believing that baptism is necessary is works-based salvation, but then you say baptism isn't a work. You are not logically consistent.

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 Friend, the topic was rosary.

Then you brought up baptism. Are you saying that you believe the "once saved, always saved" fallacy?

Baptism is not a work. Unless you say it is a work of God. Baptism is something God does. Not me. I am consistent, friend. I think the problem here is you are trying to be right about something, but are struggling to catch me out.

You love the rosary so much, my harsh truth offended your rosary and now you want to find a way to dismiss me as a heretic. Is that what's up?

Peter Wallis

@br.m ok tell me this harsh truth. Just do it. Why is the rosary going to keep you from salvation? Go on, give an actual reason, if you can.

@br.m I said that all that is required is belief and baptism. (My point was, why would the rosary have any impact on that?)

Then you said that would be works based salvation. But then you said baptism isn't a work. So how then is it works based salvation? Just trying to explain what happened. But just ignore that. Just tell me, once and for all, why would the rosary keep you from salvation? All this time, you have not actually given any reason for that.

@br.m come on, isn't there a reason? Or are you just like many others who spew anti catholic nonsense? The rosary is just a collection of prayers. So, please, once and for all, tell us why it would keep us from salvation?

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 By the way I said nothing about "believing that baptism is necessary is works based salvation".

What I said on that topic was that, IF Nicodemus was receiving instructions on what to do, then it would be work based salvation.

That's why Jesus said what he did about the bronze serpent.

Peter Wallis

@br.m I don't understand your reasoning. So, if any of us receive instruction on what to do, that is works based salvation? And he was enquiring what it meant. And Jesus told him what a person would need to do.

@br.m I really think many protestants just repeat the lies they hear, without investigation or even thought.

But i shouldn't be too harsh. I was like that too.

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 Get over yourself, child.

Am I a protestant? So I was right. my harsh but true words about the rosary offended you, so you took it upon yourself to take me apart.

Nicodemus is a Pharisee and he knew the scripture well. Like all the stuff in the Old Testament about clean water God will wash with, Ezekiel 36 for example.

Jesus did not tell Nicodemus what a person must do. He said what God is doing. Again, you are preaching work based salvation. How dare you say you were once like me. You don't know me and you don't know the Gospel. Stop making this personal this is about the rosary is bad, and salvation is not work based and the Bible is not an instruction book.

Peter Wallis

@br.m and you still haven't given a single reason why the rosary is bad. Jesus said, baptism and belief to be saved. That is not works based salvation. By saying that it is, you are disrespecting what Jesus said.

@br.m so you can't give any actual reason why the rosary is bad, you just know that it is. Ok then. Fine. Whatever.

@br.m I gave you a quote from Jesus where he says what you would need to do to be saved. He said, all who believe and are baptised will be saved. None so blind as those who refuse to see.

Brother.M

@peterwallis4288 Try to calm down buddy. I already explained the problem with the rosary. It is a symbol of unbelief.

Baptism is not a work but you try to make it one.

Praying the rosary is something for people struggling with unbelief to DO. And typically praying the rosary involves prayer to Mary, hail Mary, and counting your prayers.

I'm sorry you lack understanding. It is not the rosary itself but everything around it. The state of unbelief a person must be in to stoop to the rosary.

Sir, you lack comprehension and you are impossible. I've wasted enough of your time, go find something better to do like go read the Old Testament.

Peter Wallis

@br.m i never tried to say baptism is a work. You really lsck reading comprehension.

Oh, is that so? Really? Some of the most faithful people have used the rosary regularly. You have no clue what you are talking about. Sure, many people struggling with a lack of believe pray the rosary ..... as with any other prayer. Also, that's not wrong. If you are struggling, prayer is a good thing, right?

Anyway, you're so blinded by your anti catholic bias you aren't actually going to consider the possibility you might be wrong.

Hans-Georg Lundahl

@hglundahl

@br.m "or helping at a children's home to get brownie points with God."

Or giving money to a beggar. The importance of "brownie points with God" see Matthew 25.

"Even if rosary is optional, it is just one of many things unbiblical and anti-Christian that Catholics do and preach."

If un-Biblical means "not explicitly in the Bible" there are lots of things un-Biblical about you.

If you pretend the Rosary is anti-Christian, you need to say why, Biblically, rather than just because Brother.M says so.

"Jesus said that he must be "born from above" but Nicodemus thought he was saying "born a second time"."

In fact, the fairly old Latin translation by St. Jerome has "born again" "renatus fuerit denuo" ...

I suppose you could be taking your take from the Greek, what if Jesus and Nicodemus spoke Aramaic or Hebrew, in which case it won't work?

"You are forgetting context and you are eisegeting."

Because you say so?

"You love the rosary so much, my harsh truth"

Precisely yours. The truth the Rosary is bad comes from Brother.M. So far not traced to the Bible, except perhaps by forgetting context and eisegeting.

"Get over yourself, child."
"Try to calm down buddy."

How's that not talking down to people and an ad hominem?

"this is about the rosary is bad"

I totally agree with Peter Wallis: // and you still haven't given a single reason why the rosary is bad. //

You pretend of course that you have:

"Praying the rosary is something for people struggling with unbelief to DO."

Why just those struggling with unbelief? And why would that be "to do" any more than any other prayer? You have not explained, and I don't think you have a good explanation. Or even half-good.

"And typically praying the rosary involves prayer to Mary, hail Mary,"

Which is one way of fulfilling Her prophecy, in :

Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed
[Luke 1:48]

We are literally precisely calling Her blessed in the words of the angel and of Elisabeth.

"and counting your prayers."

Absolutely not. Having to count one's prayers is a distraction from the Rosary prayer. In a rosary, you are very typically allowing finger movements on auto-pilot and the difference of bead sizes count the prayers for you.

"It is not the rosary itself but everything around it."

Again, you have not explained what.

"The state of unbelief a person must be in to stoop to the rosary."

Again you have not explained why.

We are left with "because Brother.M says so" or "take my word for it bro" ...