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Saturday, October 1, 2022
On the Most Holy Name of Jesus
What was the REAL Name of Jesus?
29th of Sept. 2022 | ReligionForBreakfast
4:50 "especially from Greek transscriptions"
Have you checked out what the masculine genitive of a first declinsion IHCOYAC would have been?
8:27 I differ on the analysis of what happened.
Take the pronunciation Yeshua. What would that have regularly given in nominative or accusiative in Greek?
IHCOYAC, IHCOYAN (we have in fact IHCOYC, IHCOYN).
No problem there, there we have a masculine name ending in A + case endings. In the vocative, you get the whole thing : IHCOYA - basically the exact transliteration of Yeshua, except for the "sibboleth" accent of the target language.
But the genitive of that declinsion was replacing the -AC with -OY. This wold make the genitive a fairly clumsy IHCOYOY. Instead we have a simpler genitive, IHCOY, which is obtained by changing the declinsion by dropping the A.
The furtive A was back then a furtive O.
And in Greek grammar for the second declinsion, IHCOYC would be a perfect standin for IHCOOC - and obviously for IHCOYOC too. And by perfect, I mean obligatory. Non-optional.
10:33 Yeshu is a nickname we find in the Talmud. Or those who look there, I don't pretend to do so myself.
Thing is, I have a candidate for the wayward disciple of Joshua ben Pekharia - Odin.
1) not very chaste (his mentor had asked "is that all that you can think about?") - Odin is a better match than Jesus;
2) went away and learnt magic - Odin is shown as doing actual magic - shapeshifting, turning around what people actually see.
3) founded an idolatrous sect - Odinism is indeed idolatrous as in polytheistic.
The only non-match would be the execution narrative, based on that of Jesus.
11:00 Yeah, right ... that this refers (from beginning to end) to Jesus is the idea which earned the Jews 777 years before the Notre Dame fire a public Talmud burning.
Unfortunately, I can't exonerate the Talmudic accounts of the execution, or even less the Toledoth Yeshu, from this blasphemy, so, I basically don't see it as wrong that the Talmud was burned in a country where blasphemy was punishable.
But this doesn't make the Talmud a more credible source about Jesus, either name or what He did, than the Christian sources, of the true Israel.
11:43 It so happens, in Galilee, unlike Judaea, Christians were the majority outcome of religious quarrels in the first century.
Would perhaps make sense to see the Babylonian Talmud as mocking the region for that reason, if no other?
Plus could have been an answer to Christians knowing about the Yeshu who did found an idolatrous sect in centuries before Christ, namely Odin if they said "why do you mix them up?"
14:37 "no vowel length" (after Bar Kokhba revolt, I suppose you mean?)
This became a common feature at this time, or a little later, shared with Latin and Greek. At first diphthongs were an exception, but this tended to disappear from most of Romance (except au > Port. ou).
The first beginnings in Latin could be even a bit earlier : in Virgil, Golden Latin, a final -o is always long, but in Silver Latin poetry it could count as long or short according to the demands of the metre. It seems to my recollection this was also the case with final -i.
15:37 Why would we want a strong Galilaean accent in the Christian community?
The Holy Family was more or less equally at home in Nazareth and Bethlehem and other cities of Judaea (like St. Elisabeth).
St. Matthew was a Levite from Judaea.
A priest has argued that St. John the Beloved, the Gospeller, was not the son of Zebedee, but a Cohen (the disciple who was known to the priests).
It would arguably have been more likely to suppose they pronounced the Aramaic language with a "Mid Atlantic accent" as you say of people who want to be equally at home in London and in Boston. In this case a both sides around Samaria accent.