Sunday, November 6, 2022

A Tintin Fan who cannot accept Hergé's work was admired by Degrelle

Φιλολoγικά/Philologica: Easter Eggs Will Not Replicate a Style · Assorted retorts from yahoo boards and elsewhere: A Tintin Fan who cannot accept Hergé's work was admired by Degrelle

Whether Hergé ever was basing Totor and Tintin on Léon Degrelle, both having anti-Communism in common, it is certain that Degrelle claimed it, for Tintin. And it is equally certain he wouldn't have claimed it, if he hadn't been a Tintin fan. Imagine a Tintin fan who takes offense at the mention of "Degrelle admired Tintin"? Well, we have a similar case with a Tolkien fan here.

How the showrunners Of Rings Of Power got their job
John Abbott, 3 Nov. 2022

2:29 Stories are in a way about places, because places are about people.

Charles Dickens was arguably great at writing about people, but one of his novels is "A Tale of Two Cities" - so famous Trey Smith quotes that title and applies it to the Bible (Jerusalem and Babylon).
I think I recall Clay Basket fairly well and the Mexican wife of the guy who was in the present - but Mitchener made it about "Centennial, Colorado"
Indeed, in his book people come and go, reminds me of a Swedish or rather Scanian film character who had lived by a country-road all of his life and seen people come and go. Sure, the film about him (starring Edward Persson) actually is a story about people, but he qualifies, in the end, as mentor figure because of this exact fact.
And Tolkien himself wrote histories of Beleriand and Gondor and Arnor and Númenor before getting to 4 hobbits, 2 men, one each of elf, dwarf and wizard. Now, Beleriand, Gondor, Arnor, Númenor are all of them places.

Sometimes settings come before characters.

And learning Elvish (was it Quenya or Sindarin?) is also a thing JRRT did himself before writing the novel like The Hobbit and LotR.

4:02 Ah ... I thought that we did have a kind of equation Elves = Catholics, Dwarves = Jews common to both Tolkien and the showrunners, but with inverted relatives sympathies.

Tolkien in a very early stage of Silmarillion material was Anti-Semitic, and dwarves written then reflect that.

By the time we come to The Hobbit, he has mellowed up to Jews, and Thorin Oakenshield and company reflect that. So does his famous letter to the German censors.

The show is here written by people who prefer Jews over Catholics. That's why Durin cum Elrond are well written, Gilgalad and Celebrimbor are kind of crooks, and of Durin and Elrond, the latter is the goofier one.

And as Jews tend to consider unmarried men as immature, wives away from husbands lost, look for both Galadriel getting into shape when finding [herself] reunited to Celeborn and Elrond shaping up when he marries their daughter. In upcoming seasons, obviously.

To Tolkien obviously while Catholics and Elves can fuck up and fuck up royally, they are still the best groups there are among created incarnate persons.

5:49 Since when?

1) The Hobbit could have been published in NS Germany, if Tolkien had not been offended by German censors asking if he was Aryan
2) Tolkien was friends with Roy Campbell who was pro-Franco and while becoming so also converted to Catholicism, in context, he found CSL's attitude basically "too woke"
3) After Mussolini's fall, there is a post-Fascist movement in Italy, and to this day, they do admire Tolkien (Georgia Meloni also admires Chesterton), and did arrange Hobbit camps (I think Signora Meloni went to one, while she was a Signorina) - and in Casa Pound, obviously Ezra Pound's name is highest, but Tolkien is not far behind.
4) many libraries with Marxist roots for decades tended to put CSL and JRRT "on the Index" (not to be confused with the real Index Librorum by the Catholic Church), because they found them too close to Fascism (both, for instance underline men's roles and women's roles as kind of God-given rather than take up a Feminist fight against them).

And the latter story ended in 1990 or even 1997, when Peter Jackson started his work. Leaving out Scouring of the Shire could have political motives like those of the showrunners : it can be seen as anti-Communist and anti-Immigrant.

So, while I disagree on "unfortunate" I definitely do not think the article writer took the allegation out of thin air.

west bw
>2) Tolkien was friends with Roy Campbell who was pro-Franco and while becoming so also converted to Catholicism, in context, he found CSL's attitude basically "too woke"

Being a Friends with an anti communist catholic * guess who Franco was fighting dummy doesnt make you fascist it makes you god damn catholic and the Italians had their own communist party problems at the time and still fucking do. Those people are a nuisance in Italy

Its why their are Nazis in Ukraine. Some people fucking hate communists with good reason and dont care who they align with. Maybe tankies need to ask why proles all over the world hate them.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@west bw Look, to some, fighting Commies along with Franco counts as being Fascist. That involves a few Fascists and also a few Fascists who were Catholics - or are so. Even today.

I am a Catholic and I also admire José Antonio Primo de Rivera and at least for the Biennio Rosso, il Duce as well.

@west bw "tankies" - meaning what?

west bw
@Hans-Georg Lundahl Franco had a reson the communists decided to take by force Spain and would of USSRed it. AKA Purge it of its rivals (Catholics ) Fash is a natural reaction to the idiocy of you tankies. No tankies no Fash. Weird how that works?

Hans-Georg Lundahl
@west bw I still don't know what "tankie" is, and if it is Commie, you are mislabelling me.

I definitely do think Franco had a reason. I definitely do think he behaved better when taking Madrid than Patton when crossing the Rhine. I definitely do think quite a lot of what he did next was good (though feeling twenty years later the war wasn't quite over, just because someone was nostalgic about a Commie or Anarchist is not one of the good things).

Guess what? To some people - and that involves the showrunners - that makes me a Fascist (or at worst a dupe of them).

6:06 "Taking on a much greater power."

And you suppose Fascists are deaf to that ethic aesthetics?

Like Burgundians against the vastly greater power of Attila never played any part in either Wagner or Hitler Germany?

Or Mussolini and Franco never believed they were up against a vastly greater power of international Communism, especially with Russia around?

6:13 "it's not little guys admiring the Fascist"

Frodo and Sam did tend to admire Aragorn.

In this context, recall Aragorn of the books always did want to take back kingship in Gondor and Arnor, already PJ deviates by making Aragorn say "I don't want that power" and now showrunners are giving at least some hints a man who looks a bit like Aragorn (as in Viggo's interpretation) and wants to take back a lost kingdom (in this case Southlands) might turn out to be the guy closest to what Antichrist would be in real life, namely Sauron.

But Aragorn in the end admired Frodo and Sam. And if you recall, the article was not saying Tolkien admired Fascists all around the spectrum, but that lots of Fascists admire Hobbits - the small guys who took on the big guy. Which, if you know anything about Fascists other than Hollywood Nazis, tends to be true. Even Hitler - the worst of Fascist dictators and the one who was least good, to clarify I don't consider Fascism a bad thing - on a moment is going to the sickbed of a man wounded at Stalingrad, bandages all over and telling him, "no, you don't salute me, I salute you" (a sentiment one could even consider as echoed in Aragorn bowing down to Frodo and Sam).

6:17 Tolkien certainly didn't see LotR as an allegory of WW-II.

But imagine it were. Wouldn't it geographically as well as historically make sense to see more like the equations:

Lenin = Morgoth, Stalin = Sauron
Hitler = Saruman

Except of course that that letter about the Atomic bomb ...which actually was a Hitler project before being a US one. And a Soviet one.

6:33 Again, the article doesn't say all admirers are Fascists or Fascist adjacent.

It says Fascist adjacent people have a history of being admirers. Which I gave examples of in the comment to your "since when?" question.

6:53 OK, to you Frodo is the spirit of Tolkien, and Gimli and Legolas aren't.
To them Gimli and Legolas are the spirit of Tolkien.

Are Gimli and Legolas in Tolkien's work? Yes, they are.

Also, Elendil trusting Elves and getting their trust could fall in line with what they marked out as "the spirit of Tolkien"

7:03 "They are thinking in terms of ..."

things like Galadriel at Helcaraxe being very different from Galadriel in Lothlorien, perhaps? perhaps providing some character development for her inbetween?

One way to do it would be:
pushing Galadriel crossing Helcaraxe too far
putting her up against a bad result that makes her see she's gone too far
making her change from then and specifically in the direction we see in Lothlorien.

If that guess is correct, the show so far has been about pushing her character at Helcaraxe too far.

And given that Mormons don't tend to be ultrafeminists, and the showrunners are Mormons, I think the Galadriel we have seen is likely to walk into a wall, even if it's nothing worse than seeing Celeborn alive again.


Looked up your other videos, quickly - seems you are a pilot, like Christopher.

I was, in the military, Anti-Air-Craft Defense troups.

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