Saturday, January 14, 2023

Two Videos that Concern Catholic Prayers, feat. Rosary

A, Lex Meyer's Video

Unfortunately has too many views, c. 11 thousand.

The TRUTH about prayer beads and praying the rosary | UNLEARN the lies
UNLEARN the lies | 22 March 2022

0:29 The statue from 3rd C. BC, was it visible to Galilaeans of the 1st C AD?

Not just St. Thomas Didymus, when he came to India, but all of the audience in Matthew 6?

0:36 Jews have had a practise of learning the 150 psalms by heart.
They also probably have a practise of reciting them every day or every week or whatever the interval is.

With Copts, it's every day, with Greeks, it's every week, in order, with Latins it's every week with thematic rearrangements of the order.

Now, not everyone who wanted to live a religious life knew Latin or was able to say the psalms, the rules of St. Francis (died 1226) prescribe a repetition of specific numbers of Our Father's and Glory Be's in substitution for psalms, and to use knots on strings as, basically, prayer beads.

In the wiki article "prayer rope" I find this:

"The history of the prayer rope goes back to the origins of Christian monasticism itself. The invention of the prayer rope is attributed to Pachomius the Great in the fourth century as an aid for illiterate monks to accomplish a consistent number of prayers and prostrations in their cells. Previously, monks would count their prayers by casting pebbles into a bowl, but this was cumbersome, and could not be easily carried about when outside the cell. The use of the rope made it possible to pray the Jesus Prayer unceasingly, whether inside the cell or out, in accordance with Paul the Apostle's injunction to "Pray without ceasing" (I Thessalonians 5:17)."

It seems you are off by 1000 years. Unless for some reason you wish to make a point that a knot and a bead are different from each other in priciple, but I don't think so.

1:03 Lex Meyer, why do you go to KJV which was drafted in polemics against Catholics on certain topics, rather than the Greek text and old translations?

None of these have "use [vain] repetitions" as what you are supposed not to.

Greek - battologein "speak like someone stuttering"
Latin - multum loqui "speak much"
Syriac and Coptic (I checked on Quora) - both have words meaning "stutter" ...

Now if you stutter, you repeat, but involuntarily.
If you repeat, you use many words, only if you add up single occurrences.

"Stutter" and "use many words" can have other connotations, have you checked about the ethnics available in Galilee?

1:12 "pagans were known to use prayer beads to count the repetitions of their prayers"

For India - certainly.

For Romans and Greeks available to Galilee - not that I know of. Do you have any better material?

1:39 Could Mary do sth to get a miracle accomplished at Cana?
The main prayer invoking Her in the Rosary - check Luke 1:28 and 1:42, the Church then adds the name Jesus, which Mary and Elisabeth did not yet know in Luke 1. Usually also adding an originally separate prayer, which acknowledges Jesus is God by beginning "Holy Mary, Mother of God" ...

Can saints under the altar in heaven accomplish things for Christians persecuted on earth? Check apocalypse 6:9 and the two following verses.

1:46 "they can't hear those prayers"

More than you know?
Like, could God in Heaven be telling them whatever is part of their glory, like the people they intercede for?

Does ruling with Christ for a thousand years mean anything?

Abraham and Poor Lazarus were able to hear Richman, right?

Has hearing become worse since the blessed can enter heaven when they die?

Or is hearing someone on earth struggling to make it to heaven harder than hearing someone actually damned forever?

1:49 "they don't deserve such prayer"

  • adresses used by God Himself to Mary?
  • adresses to Mary underlining divinity of Our Lord?
  • "pray for us"

    Have you asked someone to pray for you and are you sorry because he didn't deserve that, only God does?

  • or the adress "blessed" which is what Jesus uses of certain categories in Matthew 5?

When we say "Holy Lucy, pray for us!" we are:
  • affirming Lucy is holy or blessed in the sense Jesus meant in Matthew 5
  • ruling with Christ for the thousand years
  • asking her to pray for us.

What part of this doesn't she deserve?

2:01 If the Holy Spirit intercedes for you, is it ever by inspiring someone to pray for you?

Are you saying Lucy or others awaiting a glorious resurrection are cut off from the Holy Spirit?

2:22 When it says Jesus is interceding, do the mentions of His resurrection mean He does so as a man?

If the head does so, can the members do so?

Are only the Christians on earth members of Christ?

2:46 "a form of necromancy"

Certainly not one enumerated in Deuteronomy 18:
[9] When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God shall give thee, beware lest thou have a mind to imitate the abominations of those nations. [10] Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard, [11] Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead.

What's your clue for what's necromancy? John Calvin's misleading commentary on this?

B, Redeemed Catholic's Video

unfortunately has too few views, only 184

Mary, Saints, Catholic Prayers | Unlearn the Lies REBUTTED
Redeemed Catholic | 9 Sept. 2022

I hadn't seen this one by Unlearn or Lex, I'm not surprised, but this is likely to be among his less good ones ...

At 0:02 did he use a mistranslation of Matthew 6:7 too or at least avoid that blunder?

He used a mistranslation.

1:01 I predict as probable that he's going to bring up "like the heathen / gentiles" in the Matthew 6 context.

On this line, it may be more useful to note, prayer beads may have been a thing among hindoos, but they weren't in the greco-roman world.

The "gentiles" Christ referred to must have been identifiable to His first audience, it was not a prophecy about how to deal with later discovering Hindoos, it was a command about "gentiles" known from the experience of Hebrews in Galilee.

I was right. Lex did that.

4:40 Great point, I wonder what St. Pachomius would have said about being placed in the 14th C. ....

8:52 Considering what I know of Gentile prayers in 1st C. Greek and specifically Roman world, I would say ESV and RSV are closest from the translations visible on the screen right now.

Have you seen the Roman Historian Velleius Paterculus? His second book of Historiae Romanae, ending in AD 30, exact same year as Jesus began His preaching, ends on a Roman pagan prayer.

It definitely heaps up empty phrases.

10:13 They were not even reciting things over and over again.

They were making speeches to their gods.

"Dear Zardeena who watchest watchfully over our digestion, may I have no indigestion when eating the sardines, so that your glory may not be tarnished, dear Rye who ..."

This is if saying grace had been a pagan practise, it wasn't, it was in fact both a Jewish and a Christian practise.

11:05 To return to Velleius Paterculus' final prayer, Christ is not requiring each prayer to be from already existing faith and love, He is specifically forbidding to be nervous about whether God will hear.

Nervous people stutter.
People who are nervous about a request are specifically also prone to bolster it with explanations above explanations, which is precisely what Velleius did.

Jesus is comparing that second act to stuttering. Both involve beginning over and over again because one is insecure.

11:15 We need not actually focus all or even most of the time on the prayers coming from one's mouth.

When saying the Rosary, it is perfectly OK to use the Hail Mary's as a kind of drumbeat to get oneself into a daydream about what the prayer is about, namely the 15 mysteries.

17:34 I had missed that "God is the God of the living"

In connexion with Poor Lazarus, I am recalling Christ's words to Martha, Lazarus' sister:

John 11:26-26
Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live: And every one that liveth, and believeth in me, shall not die for ever. Believest thou this?

Hebrews 11 with 12:1, another go to.

20:57 This ending of the Greek and Coptic texts is obviously a go to against Greeks who deny the Immaculate Conception.

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