Tuesday, March 13, 2018

Against a Muslim accusation against "Paul" for taqqiya and false prophecy

If you see it through, the accusation for false prophecy is not just against Paul, but against Jesus Himself.

Jay Smith's Pfander Films Shocked: Mike Licona Admits Muslims Are Right:
John Smith | Ajoutée le 16 janv. 2017

1:40 Did Paul say he was doing taqqiya?

No. He had more than one identity and he did not object to using each as appropriate.

To a Jew, he knew Jewish legalia. To a Roman he knew Roman justice.

Here is the quote:

I Cor 9: [19] For whereas I was free as to all, I made myself the servant of all, that I might gain the more. [20] And I became to the Jews, a Jew, that I might gain the Jews: [21] To them that are under the law, as if I were under the law, (whereas myself was not under the law,) that I might gain them that were under the law. To them that were without the law, as if I were without the law, (whereas I was not without the law of God, but was in the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that were without the law. [22] To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I became all things to all men, that I might save all.

He said "I became" not "I said I was".

He used his freedom to fit in, he did not lie about restrictions he didn't believe in nor deny the restrictions he did believe in.

Fitting in and lying is not the same thing.

1:43 he'll act like anything ... more like Christian version of anything ... to gain converts ... yes ... that's a deceiver ... no, not unless he lied or acted against his normal conscience.

1:55 Did Paul make a false prophecy in I Thess 4?

No. You are probably referring to:

[14] For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept. [15] For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. [16] Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. [17] Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.

Since the "we" extends to all of the Church, "we who are alive" means those who are alive in the last days, not that he or his hearers would necessarily be that.

It seems the guy said I Thess 4 verse 17, meaning the one which is in our Catholic version verse 16, no doubt.

"speaks of Jesus coming back"


"in Pauls own lifetime"

No. His "we" extends to all of the Church, not to his own generation only.

He is not necessarily included among the we, as one person, but he is dividing the "we" for those who will be.

3:23 [Matthew 16:][28] Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Here it is Jesus Christ Himself who would be the false prophet, if this were not true.

The beloved disciple did not taste death. Whether he was or was not the son of Zebedee, he was there and he was lying down in his grave and doing a sign of the cross, there was a light, and the grave was full of mannah.

No tasting of death there.

It is also possible ... well, here is the Haydock comment:

Ver. 28. Till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Some expound this, as fulfilled at his transfiguration, which follows in the next chapter. Others understand it of the glory of Christ, and of his Church, after his resurrection and ascension, when he should be owned for Redeemer of the world: and this state of the Christian Church might be called the kingdom of Christ. Wi. — This promise of a transitory view of his glory he makes, to prove that he should one day come in all the glory of his Father, to judge each man according to his works: not according to his mercy, or their faith, but according to their works. Aug. de verb. apos. serm. 35. — Again, asks S. Aug. how could our Saviour reward every one according to his works, if there were no free will? l. ii. c. 4. 5. 8, de act. cum Fœlic. Manich. B.

Wi = bishop Witham.

4:03 "John the son of Zebedee is the only one of the disciples not to have been martyred"

If St Irenaeus didn't confuse two different John, the son of Zebedee with the Gospeller, the beloved disciple.

If he did, both the predictions of Our Lord are accurate.

The sons of Zebedee were both martyred and the beloved Disciple did not taste death. If so.

Note very well, this was a solution which was available in the diocese of Paris since 1968 and on print in bookshops since next year, it has been there all of my life.

See Jean Colson, Le mystère du disciple que Jésus aimait.

4:15 If you read the words of the sons of Zebedee literally and still take the beloved disciple for one of them, one could say being boiled in oil even if miraculously surviving was martyrdom too, since naturally it would have killed the beloved disciple.

4:39 "Christians please look into Islam with an open mind"

The material given here either needs refutation, as I have given, or better, or if there isn't any, it is as deadly for Islam as for Christianity, since it would make Our Lord a false prophet too.

He obviously was not.

Muslims, when you attack Christianity, you serve Jews who take the word of a necromancer about the eternal state of Jesus, whom you call a prophet.

On clip added after contact info (which I used to forward this):

5:33 development of "Nicaea" and "Constantinople" in creeds - successive fatwas, you should be able to understand that successive fatwas deal with successive errors.

5:41 You do not have proof in Apostolic creed only the Father is God.

You do not have proof in Nicene Creed the Father and the Son are both God but the Holy Spirit is not.

You do have proof in Constantinople version of the Creed all three are God.

If the guy admitted the "development" started even in the Gospel of St John, why is he not a Christian?

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